Bush War rumination

Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:15:46 +0000

Frances et al....

There may one or two others on this list who 'served' but from the tone, I 
expect not many.  I was in the Army in 1964-65.  I was in and out before the 
going got hot and steamy in VC land, but I can tell you, as much as I hated 
the military at the time, it was certainly one of the most intense and in a 
way, better times of my life. The best thing was that I didn't have to 'go 
anywhere and kill anybody.' But I can tell you for the most part, the guys 
in my units felt the same way.  So this constant characterization of the 
Army as a bunch of low-IQ kill-crazies is both uninformed and kinda stupid.  
My dad was a light colonel in the Army in Burma during WWII.  He served with 
the Burma Surgeon Dr. Gordon Seagrave under Gen Joe Stillwell (read Barbara 
Tuchman's book on this era of history). I think of the US military, just as 
I do of the firemen in NYC.  They are mainly just people who want to protect 
their friends and family...whatever their smaller more tactical reasons 
might be for being in the service.

I remember someone saying that a gun is just a tool, but it is a tool for 
use when no other tool will do. Let the same be said for military action. 
Certainly there are some testosterone overamped gung-hos that want to engage 
in the 'ultimate football game', but they are hardly the rule.  Maybe that 
is what was wrong with Tim McVeigh, and maybe that is why they did not let 
him in to Special Forces.  The army is pretty good at screening out the nut 
cases.  And even these gung-hos have a place and make pretty good weapons to 
boot, if not great neighbors and citizens.

I think about this stuff when I am driving down the road. But before we can 
begin our Marshall Plan for Afghanistan, just as in Nazi Germany and Japan, 
the atavistic monsters in charge have to be removed from power. Now, only 
the military can do this.

No, I do not want the USA making the world safe for further corporate 
domination, Disneyland, and freeways, but I do want it to be a place where I 
do not have to see office workers jumping out of firey buildings and people 
hauling away kidneys and fingertips in buckets.

When I see the peaceniks, the main thing I want them ask themselves, is,
would they defend their belief in pacifism with their lives?  That is, if 
someone who hates you and your belief system comes up and sees you with your 
little flowers and signs and says...."Ah great, more enemy to kill, and 
these will be easier, since they will not defend themselves."
Would they suddenly change their minds and fight or flee? And make no 
mistake, with the enemy we are facing today...those are our choices, fight 
or flee.  Maybe later, or simultaneously we can begin our war for hearts and 
minds....that phrase again.

I, of course, have a special anger reserved for our bureaucratic 
"Intelligence Comunity" whose meddling I believe instigated many of the 
sources of the resentment we so achingly experienced on 9/11. Just as in 
Viet Nam, the 'blowback' from their actions is felt in far away places and a 
lot closer to home than we expected.  Perhaps this is the kind of thing that 
will make every American realize how important it is to not leave policy in 
the hands of a small group of 'professionals'.  Small groups of 'experts' 
always operate to first benefit the 'small group's' interests, and only in a 
later sense to benefit the stated larger interest. That is how we got in 
Viet Nam and the Gulf War, and now that is how we are where we are now. But 
FOR THE MOMENT, HOW WE GOT HERE DOESN'T MATTER. We have to end the present 
danger in order to re-think and re-structure the way "we are" and the way 
the USA relates to the rest of the world. (I have plenty to say on that 
topic too.)

I do not think it does us much good to call this the 'Bush War'...the action 
against us was planned long before the election. And would you be calling it 
the Gore War if the exact same thing was happening with a different 
president? (I wonder if the Bush folks would have worked so hard at stealing 
the election if they had know this was going to end up in their laps?)

Hauling our all our old Viet Nam reactions to a totally different situation 
is not constructive, and while I do not think of myself as a knee-jerk 
nationalist, I do think one has to make a decision as to which side of the 
'fight or flee' line you are on.

Tele

>From: "Wayne Johnson" <cadaobh2@brgnet.com>
>To: <frances_morey@excite.com>, "telebob x" <telebob98@hotmail.com>, 
><austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
>Subject: RE: [Austin-ghetto-list] Re: Bush War needs Arab approval
>Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:28:20 -0400
>
>Uh, some how the idea of a lot of low IQ sociopaths running amok with some
>70T M1A2 tanks is not my idea of a good time.
>
>B.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Frances Morey
>Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 3:31 PM
>To: telebob x; austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
>Subject: [Austin-ghetto-list] Re: Bush War needs Arab approval
>
>
>tele,
>That was a brilliant analysis, and a perfect solution: civilize the
>bastards. Unfortunately it is a terrible challenge to re-educate the
>individual for sanity. Timothy McVeigh didn't suffer a third world
>upbringing. His profound disappointment at being rejected from the special
>forces propelled him to get even with the federal government and blow up 
>the
>federal building. Since when did we allow the military to become
>"selective." I am for bringing back the draft and letting those who would
>otherwise be in prison play soldier to their hearts content.
>Frances
>On Fri, 05 Oct 2001 05:13:15 +0000, telebob x wrote:
>
> >  Roger's perceptions are all very well for leading us into group 
>suicide,
>but
> >  check this one out.....Skunk Baxter?  SKUNK BAXTER FROM STEELY DAN?  
>Yes,
>
> >  one and the same...Skunk is now a military analyst and he has some
> >  suggestions on how to deal with the ongoing crisis....
> >  BTW...calling it Bush War is
> >
> >  (forwarded from the Jive95 list)
> >
> >
> >  excerpted from --- Unlikely Doves: Counter-terrorism Experts
> >  David Corn, AlterNet
> >  September 28, 2001
> >
> >  The need to think beyond military solutions was also raised at a
> >  bizarre talk given by Jeff "Skunk" Baxter before a group of military
> >  policymeisters, defense contractors, and Defense Department employees
> >  a few days after the attack. Weeks before September 11, the Potomac
> >  Institute for Policy Studies, a Pentagon-friendly think tank, had
> >  asked Baxter, who was a lead guitarist for the Doobie Brothers and
> >  Steely Dan and a music-technology wiz before fashioning himself into
> >  a military-technology expert, to present the case for a national
> >  missile defense. After the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks,
> >  Baxter -- with his droopy mustache and old-guy pony tail -- was still
> >  happy to do so. He argued that in the post-9/11 world, missile
> >  defense remains "imperative" because China still could intimidate the
> >  United States by threatening to launch one or more of its two dozen
> >  or so nuclear missiles. Beijing, he claimed, would not be deterred by
> >  a U.S. counterstrike: "If we launch a nuclear attack against China --
> >  all we do is solve their housing crisis." He maintained that Chinese
> >  leaders do not think about "protecting the public." So imagine, he
> >  commanded his audience, if in the midst of another September 11-like
> >  event, China moved against Taiwan and told Washington, back off or
> >  we'll take out Los Angeles. How could the president appear on
> >  television and say, I am going to prosecute a war in Taiwan, and
> >  America must prepare for further casualties?
> >
> >  Here was an undiluted Star Wars fanatic. What was interesting,
> >  however, was that even a hawk like Baxter, who is a consultant to the
> >  Pentagon, saw the limits of a counterterrorism policy that depends
> >  upon military action. The problem, as he put it, is the United States
> >  faces an adversary driven by powerful forces: "You live in a
> >  dirt-poor place, but if you blow yourself up in the name of Allah,
> >  you'll get 73 virgins, all the dope you can smoke, a backstage passes
> >  to Bruce Springsteen ... How do we nullify and negate that threat?"
> >  Simple, he said: "The way to keep a kamikaze pilot out of aircraft
> >  ... is to deal with it at the source" -- that is, the motivation.
> >
> >  The goal of U.S. policy, he said, should be to "re-engineer the
> >  perceptions of our enemies." Suicide bombers have to be convinced
> >  "they get nothing for dying for Allah," and the people who support
> >  terrorists -- leaders or commoners -- have to be persuaded such
> >  violence is an insult to Islam and counterproductive. So Baxter
> >  proposed a Manhattan Project of "perception engineering," which would
> >  explore and develop a variety of means: psychological warfare,
> >  propaganda campaigns designed by advertising executives ("these guys
> >  were selling Chevrolets when they were crap with the 'heartbeat of
> >  America'"); nanomachines that can invade the circulatory system and
> >  effect the brain and thought patterns of the target; cultural
> >  products that can engender warm feelings toward the United States.
> >  "This World War III is a different war," Baxter commented. "It's an
> >  information war ... a war fought with ideas ... I can give you a
> >  valium and make you feel good. I can give you a musical score and
> >  engineer your perceptions ... All this is doable."
> >
> >  The audience's positive response was intriguing. Most listeners
> >  appeared to accept his premise that motivation and causation had to
> >  be addressed. Baxter, of course, skipped past the possibility that
> >  persons who harbor ill-will toward the United States might possess
> >  legitimate grievances about, say, economic conditions, the repressive
> >  conduct of governments backed by Washington, or the pervasive
> >  influence of American culture. His answer was not to solve problems,
> >  but to manipulate the responses to problems. Nevertheless, his kooky
> >  proposal focused on ideas, not missiles.
> >
> >
> >
> >  >From: Roger Baker <rcbaker@infohiwy.net>
> >  >Reply-To: rcbaker@eden.infohwy.com
> >  >To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> >  >Subject: [Austin-ghetto-list] Bush War needs Arab approval
> >  >Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 03:07:33 -0500
> >  >
> >  >When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor things were simple; we just went
>to
> >  >war and bombed them right back twice as hard with weapons of mass
> >  >destruction. Whatever.
> >  >
> >  >But Bush's new infinite crusade against terrorism, fought wherever it
>lurks
> >  >and as long as it takes, is a bit trickier than he made it seem at
>first:
> >  >
> >  >"...The central strategic conundrum is this: the more the United 
>States
> >  >presses moderate, often autocratic leaders in the Middle East to help 
>in
>
> >  >its
> >  >campaign, the more it jeopardizes them. If they go too far, they risk,
>at
> >  >best, being labeled American stooges, and at worst, losing power to
>Islamic
> >  >militants in their own societies..."
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >It seems that we forgot that we might need Arab permission to go to 
>war
>or
> >  >else the war itself could destabilize the Arab host countries, kind of
>like
> >  >the evil Mr. bin Laden was warning us. So this will necessarily have 
>to
>be
> >  >a kinder and gentler war calculated not to create too many inflamatory
> >  >headlines in Egyptian newspapers, etc.
> >  >
> >  >
> >
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>
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