Bush War rumination
Jon Ford
jonmfordster@hotmail.com
Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:25:05 -0700
Bob, read some Boris Vian-- his position on veterans warms my heart.
Jon
>From: "telebob x" <telebob98@hotmail.com>
>To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
>Subject: Bush War rumination
>Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:15:46 +0000
>
>Frances et al....
>
>There may one or two others on this list who 'served' but from the tone, I
>expect not many. I was in the Army in 1964-65. I was in and out before
>the
>going got hot and steamy in VC land, but I can tell you, as much as I hated
>the military at the time, it was certainly one of the most intense and in a
>way, better times of my life. The best thing was that I didn't have to 'go
>anywhere and kill anybody.' But I can tell you for the most part, the guys
>in my units felt the same way. So this constant characterization of the
>Army as a bunch of low-IQ kill-crazies is both uninformed and kinda stupid.
>My dad was a light colonel in the Army in Burma during WWII. He served
>with
>the Burma Surgeon Dr. Gordon Seagrave under Gen Joe Stillwell (read Barbara
>Tuchman's book on this era of history). I think of the US military, just as
>I do of the firemen in NYC. They are mainly just people who want to
>protect
>their friends and family...whatever their smaller more tactical reasons
>might be for being in the service.
>
>I remember someone saying that a gun is just a tool, but it is a tool for
>use when no other tool will do. Let the same be said for military action.
>Certainly there are some testosterone overamped gung-hos that want to
>engage
>in the 'ultimate football game', but they are hardly the rule. Maybe that
>is what was wrong with Tim McVeigh, and maybe that is why they did not let
>him in to Special Forces. The army is pretty good at screening out the nut
>cases. And even these gung-hos have a place and make pretty good weapons
>to
>boot, if not great neighbors and citizens.
>
>I think about this stuff when I am driving down the road. But before we can
>begin our Marshall Plan for Afghanistan, just as in Nazi Germany and Japan,
>the atavistic monsters in charge have to be removed from power. Now, only
>the military can do this.
>
>No, I do not want the USA making the world safe for further corporate
>domination, Disneyland, and freeways, but I do want it to be a place where
>I
>do not have to see office workers jumping out of firey buildings and people
>hauling away kidneys and fingertips in buckets.
>
>When I see the peaceniks, the main thing I want them ask themselves, is,
>would they defend their belief in pacifism with their lives? That is, if
>someone who hates you and your belief system comes up and sees you with
>your
>little flowers and signs and says...."Ah great, more enemy to kill, and
>these will be easier, since they will not defend themselves."
>Would they suddenly change their minds and fight or flee? And make no
>mistake, with the enemy we are facing today...those are our choices, fight
>or flee. Maybe later, or simultaneously we can begin our war for hearts
>and
>minds....that phrase again.
>
>I, of course, have a special anger reserved for our bureaucratic
>"Intelligence Comunity" whose meddling I believe instigated many of the
>sources of the resentment we so achingly experienced on 9/11. Just as in
>Viet Nam, the 'blowback' from their actions is felt in far away places and
>a
>lot closer to home than we expected. Perhaps this is the kind of thing
>that
>will make every American realize how important it is to not leave policy in
>the hands of a small group of 'professionals'. Small groups of 'experts'
>always operate to first benefit the 'small group's' interests, and only in
>a
>later sense to benefit the stated larger interest. That is how we got in
>Viet Nam and the Gulf War, and now that is how we are where we are now. But
>FOR THE MOMENT, HOW WE GOT HERE DOESN'T MATTER. We have to end the present
>danger in order to re-think and re-structure the way "we are" and the way
>the USA relates to the rest of the world. (I have plenty to say on that
>topic too.)
>
>I do not think it does us much good to call this the 'Bush War'...the
>action
>against us was planned long before the election. And would you be calling
>it
>the Gore War if the exact same thing was happening with a different
>president? (I wonder if the Bush folks would have worked so hard at
>stealing
>the election if they had know this was going to end up in their laps?)
>
>Hauling our all our old Viet Nam reactions to a totally different situation
>is not constructive, and while I do not think of myself as a knee-jerk
>nationalist, I do think one has to make a decision as to which side of the
>'fight or flee' line you are on.
>
>Tele
>
>
>>From: "Wayne Johnson" <cadaobh2@brgnet.com>
>>To: <frances_morey@excite.com>, "telebob x" <telebob98@hotmail.com>,
>><austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
>>Subject: RE: [Austin-ghetto-list] Re: Bush War needs Arab approval
>>Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:28:20 -0400
>>
>>Uh, some how the idea of a lot of low IQ sociopaths running amok with some
>>70T M1A2 tanks is not my idea of a good time.
>>
>>B.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
>>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Frances Morey
>>Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 3:31 PM
>>To: telebob x; austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
>>Subject: [Austin-ghetto-list] Re: Bush War needs Arab approval
>>
>>
>>tele,
>>That was a brilliant analysis, and a perfect solution: civilize the
>>bastards. Unfortunately it is a terrible challenge to re-educate the
>>individual for sanity. Timothy McVeigh didn't suffer a third world
>>upbringing. His profound disappointment at being rejected from the special
>>forces propelled him to get even with the federal government and blow up
>>the
>>federal building. Since when did we allow the military to become
>>"selective." I am for bringing back the draft and letting those who would
>>otherwise be in prison play soldier to their hearts content.
>>Frances
>>On Fri, 05 Oct 2001 05:13:15 +0000, telebob x wrote:
>>
>> > Roger's perceptions are all very well for leading us into group
>>suicide,
>>but
>> > check this one out.....Skunk Baxter? SKUNK BAXTER FROM STEELY DAN?
>>Yes,
>>
>> > one and the same...Skunk is now a military analyst and he has some
>> > suggestions on how to deal with the ongoing crisis....
>> > BTW...calling it Bush War is
>> >
>> > (forwarded from the Jive95 list)
>> >
>> >
>> > excerpted from --- Unlikely Doves: Counter-terrorism Experts
>> > David Corn, AlterNet
>> > September 28, 2001
>> >
>> > The need to think beyond military solutions was also raised at a
>> > bizarre talk given by Jeff "Skunk" Baxter before a group of military
>> > policymeisters, defense contractors, and Defense Department employees
>> > a few days after the attack. Weeks before September 11, the Potomac
>> > Institute for Policy Studies, a Pentagon-friendly think tank, had
>> > asked Baxter, who was a lead guitarist for the Doobie Brothers and
>> > Steely Dan and a music-technology wiz before fashioning himself into
>> > a military-technology expert, to present the case for a national
>> > missile defense. After the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks,
>> > Baxter -- with his droopy mustache and old-guy pony tail -- was still
>> > happy to do so. He argued that in the post-9/11 world, missile
>> > defense remains "imperative" because China still could intimidate the
>> > United States by threatening to launch one or more of its two dozen
>> > or so nuclear missiles. Beijing, he claimed, would not be deterred by
>> > a U.S. counterstrike: "If we launch a nuclear attack against China --
>> > all we do is solve their housing crisis." He maintained that Chinese
>> > leaders do not think about "protecting the public." So imagine, he
>> > commanded his audience, if in the midst of another September 11-like
>> > event, China moved against Taiwan and told Washington, back off or
>> > we'll take out Los Angeles. How could the president appear on
>> > television and say, I am going to prosecute a war in Taiwan, and
>> > America must prepare for further casualties?
>> >
>> > Here was an undiluted Star Wars fanatic. What was interesting,
>> > however, was that even a hawk like Baxter, who is a consultant to the
>> > Pentagon, saw the limits of a counterterrorism policy that depends
>> > upon military action. The problem, as he put it, is the United States
>> > faces an adversary driven by powerful forces: "You live in a
>> > dirt-poor place, but if you blow yourself up in the name of Allah,
>> > you'll get 73 virgins, all the dope you can smoke, a backstage passes
>> > to Bruce Springsteen ... How do we nullify and negate that threat?"
>> > Simple, he said: "The way to keep a kamikaze pilot out of aircraft
>> > ... is to deal with it at the source" -- that is, the motivation.
>> >
>> > The goal of U.S. policy, he said, should be to "re-engineer the
>> > perceptions of our enemies." Suicide bombers have to be convinced
>> > "they get nothing for dying for Allah," and the people who support
>> > terrorists -- leaders or commoners -- have to be persuaded such
>> > violence is an insult to Islam and counterproductive. So Baxter
>> > proposed a Manhattan Project of "perception engineering," which would
>> > explore and develop a variety of means: psychological warfare,
>> > propaganda campaigns designed by advertising executives ("these guys
>> > were selling Chevrolets when they were crap with the 'heartbeat of
>> > America'"); nanomachines that can invade the circulatory system and
>> > effect the brain and thought patterns of the target; cultural
>> > products that can engender warm feelings toward the United States.
>> > "This World War III is a different war," Baxter commented. "It's an
>> > information war ... a war fought with ideas ... I can give you a
>> > valium and make you feel good. I can give you a musical score and
>> > engineer your perceptions ... All this is doable."
>> >
>> > The audience's positive response was intriguing. Most listeners
>> > appeared to accept his premise that motivation and causation had to
>> > be addressed. Baxter, of course, skipped past the possibility that
>> > persons who harbor ill-will toward the United States might possess
>> > legitimate grievances about, say, economic conditions, the repressive
>> > conduct of governments backed by Washington, or the pervasive
>> > influence of American culture. His answer was not to solve problems,
>> > but to manipulate the responses to problems. Nevertheless, his kooky
>> > proposal focused on ideas, not missiles.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: Roger Baker <rcbaker@infohiwy.net>
>> > >Reply-To: rcbaker@eden.infohwy.com
>> > >To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
>> > >Subject: [Austin-ghetto-list] Bush War needs Arab approval
>> > >Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 03:07:33 -0500
>> > >
>> > >When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor things were simple; we just
>>went
>>to
>> > >war and bombed them right back twice as hard with weapons of mass
>> > >destruction. Whatever.
>> > >
>> > >But Bush's new infinite crusade against terrorism, fought wherever it
>>lurks
>> > >and as long as it takes, is a bit trickier than he made it seem at
>>first:
>> > >
>> > >"...The central strategic conundrum is this: the more the United
>>States
>> > >presses moderate, often autocratic leaders in the Middle East to help
>>in
>>
>> > >its
>> > >campaign, the more it jeopardizes them. If they go too far, they
>>risk,
>>at
>> > >best, being labeled American stooges, and at worst, losing power to
>>Islamic
>> > >militants in their own societies..."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >It seems that we forgot that we might need Arab permission to go to
>>war
>>or
>> > >else the war itself could destabilize the Arab host countries, kind
>>of
>>like
>> > >the evil Mr. bin Laden was warning us. So this will necessarily have
>>to
>>be
>> > >a kinder and gentler war calculated not to create too many
>>inflamatory
>> > >headlines in Egyptian newspapers, etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
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>>
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