let's not do nuance
Bill Irwin
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Sun Mar 28 13:20:04 2004
I couldn't have said it better so I'll say no more.
Ewie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Storm" <mesmo@gilanet.com>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
> Well, Bubba, ol' pal, I've been sitting and reading your series of
religion
> essays and resisting the temptation to reply since I basically disagree
with
> you on almost every point...you and your syncophant the capitalist candle
> maker and late night alcho-guru. And, I might add that I agree with Pepi
on
> almost every aspect. Your lack of depth and understanding, your stubborn,
> backward spins on religion and church and the afterlife and spirituality
in
> general are not consistent with your typically informed observations
(which
> I generally respect). You are out of step, ignoring the beat.
>
> I recall your previous posts about the Zen Center in NorCal which you
> attended in the 70's. I supposed that this was a positive experience for
you
> and that you absorbed some basic Buddhism and the ability to meditate. No?
> You don't believe there is a way to greater understanding of the mysteries
> of the universe? Or you have given up the effort because for some reason
you
> were not satisfied with the results? You don't believe there are teachers
> out there who can help you progress? They are all charlatans? The Zen
> Masters are con artists? Harry Houdini is your idea of a spiritual leader?
> Come now, Bubba. Sounds to me like you have the blinders on. I know that
> Saturn is transiting through your sign and may have you in such a state of
> denial and percieved limitation that you are allowing your depression to
> rule. Fight against it. It will soon pass. Don't let it bury you in
> negativism.
>
> Death is death, younger or older makes little difference. One perspective
is
> that those who die young are the most fortunate since they are spared the
> pain of aging and suffering. Many see death as the ultimate release, a
time
> of celebration rather than a morbid downer of dark feelings. Once again,
it
> is your choice. Cry over it or accept it and move on. When it's over it's
> over. It is not the dead you suffer over, it is your own sorry ass,
pitying
> yourself because you have to change to compensate for the "loss". Change
and
> loss are normal, not an aberration.
>
> The spirit guides will help you if you ask them, not at all complicated.
If
> you don't give it a good try, they don't seem to particularly give a damn.
I
> prefer to believe that we can progress in each life cycle and the worst we
> can do is blow off the opportunity to do so behind some kind of negative,
> fear based arrogance, some pseudo-intellectual BS.
>
> May I suggest that you move beyond the headlines and the current events
and
> ponder the passing of the natural cycles. Spirituality is not an
> intellectual exercise, remember? By turning off the intellect you allow
the
> cognitive to rise. Rationality is often the greatest barrier to truth. It
> is spring and the life cycle is all around us, so much being born, so much
> life! Join in!
>
> G
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net>
> To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:20 AM
> Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
>
>
> > I certainly hope so. I very much believe in the respecting the dead. I
> > don't step on graves and I when I am in graveyards taking photographs I
> try
> > to be ultra careful and ultra respectful. I do medidate in these times
> on
> > the possible lives of the people whose names and photographs I see
there.
> > Death is sad and sadder still for those who die young. Incidentally, I
> > extend this to notion to not eating lamb and veal.
> >
> > Is there a human "spirit" and can it be "enhanced" or worse, crushed? I
> > don't know. Sometimes I read about or see examples of human love,
courage
> > and creativity that make me weep for joy. Othertimes, well, you know
the
> > "other times" as well as I. We may be starting a period of "darkness"
> > unsurpassed in a thousand years, as in (feudal) corporate-socialism (the
> > ultimate facist state) which will endeavor to create two distinct
classes:
> > lords and serfs. One with education and all the money, the other with
> dull
> > minds, strongs backs and cheap body parts.
> >
> > Harry Houdini, who was nothing if not invested with curiousity about the
> > after life, supposedly told his wife that if there was a "way" to come
> back,
> > he would. There is no account of his success from this, his final
> > disappearing act.
> >
> > Gee I hope there is some other, transcendental experience, but I fear it
> is
> > just that, wishful thinking.
> >
> > wj
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Monty/Judy" <m.herr@comcast.net>
> > To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 10:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
> >
> >
> > > But, to the extent that our families and friends remember us and tell
> the
> > > stories, our spirits are immortal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> > > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of telebob
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:07 PM
> > > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > > Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
> > >
> > > Wayne-
> > >
> > > I think as you do, and thank you for reminding us that most priests
and
> > > factotems are basically criminals who spread cultural myths (all the
> > better
> > > if they believe what they preach, it makes it easier for them to
> sleep)in
> > > order to retain and extend personal and institutional power. This is
> not
> > > to
> > > say that there are no benefits, since those common mythyologies help
to
> > > create a 'public order' no matter what the standard. Are religious
> > > societies 'better' than secular societies? How do we measure? These
> are
> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and indeed you know they are out
> there
> > > discussing this shit still, like a bunch of sophomores who have just
> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> > >
> > > But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a 'philosophical' mood one night,
a
> > > little in his cups, and he related. "I watch people die and people
born
> > > every day as a part of my job, and all I can say is, 'Where does the
> flame
> > > go when it goes out?' Does the flame have a soul?" He was not a
> religious
> > > man, though he tried to keep up appearances. On the other hand, he was
> > > 'moral' person who enjoyed overpaying his taxes and never breaking a
> > > traffic
> > > law.
> > >
> > > So when we are approached by 'holy men' of any stripe, know you are
> being
> > > approached by the powers of darkness. This includes rabbis, priests,
> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my faith in the scientific
method
> > > and
> > > its self correcting process.
> > >
> > > What do we have to look forward to? The peace of the grave. Heaven
is
> > > here
> > > on earth, make the best of it. People who identify with their
> 'religions'
> > > are essentially deciding which 'team' they want to play on. Imagine
it
> as
> > > though all religions are just sports teams, and you are free to join
or
> > > not.
> > > But if you put on the uniform, then you have to play for your side,
and
> > you
> > > have to follow the coach and the quarterback's rules or get thrown out
> for
> > > being a 'bad sport.'
> > >
> > > Religion and those who follow it are just like Roger says, tribal
apes.
> > > God
> > > bless Thorsten Veblen and Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
> > >
> > > telegnostic
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> > > [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Wayne
Johnson
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:20 PM
> > > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > > Subject: Re: let's not do nuance
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh, I wish I didn't feel compelled to write this. I know, just know,
> that
> > > I
> > > will surely regret it. But I just can't find any sane and
> > > non-Transcendental argument for the existence of a "soul". I really,
> > > really wish it were true and that we could all come back again, but my
> > > belief is that when the "biological" light goes out...it stays out.
> > > Finito!
> > > No mas!
> > >
> > > >From my perspective, we have some tens of thousands of years of
> "wishful"
> > > thinking aided and abetted by a bunch of semi-literate, semi-criminals
> who
> > > wish to profit by spreading mystical and irrational beliefs. Did
Arthur
> > go
> > > to Avalon? Probably not, as much as I would like it to be so. Ain't
> going
> > > to see him again. Nor any other person what has kicked the
"biological"
> > > bucket. Doornails is doornails and when you is gone, you is over.
> > >
> > > So. What do I have to look forward to? Not a damn thing. Is that
> > > existential or what?
> > >
> > > Cheers until then...."Happy Trails to You, until we meet again".
> > >
> > > wj
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
> > > To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: let's try to do nuance
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Michael Eisenstadt <michaele@ando.pair.com> wrote:
> > > > > Pepi,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for writing at length about this.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I don't speak it.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Hebrew school (to prepare for confirmation at 13
> > > > > for the sake of my religious grandmother who would
> > > > > have had a fit if I wasn't confirmed), we used to
> > > > > say
> > > > > Baruch ator, I don't know anymore.
> > > > >
> > > > > Baruch ator are the first 2 words of all the
> > > > > prayers.
> > > > > Actually we worked our way through quite a bit of
> > > > > Genesis reading it in the original which was my
> > > > > original
> > > > > introduction to the ENORMOUS charm of reading a
> > > > > foreign language.When I slowly worked my way through
> > > > >
> > > > > one of the books of the Iliad in the original many
> > > > > years
> > > > > later, I thought back to Miss Snow with the enormous
> > > > >
> > > > > boobs driving us like Gadarene swine through the
> > > > > beginning
> > > > > of the bible.
> > > >
> > > > Amusing visuals here!
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As for your and your sisters' previous lives, that
> > > > > sounds
> > > > > like hard work.
> > > >
> > > > Seems like it always is.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me get this straight: the jews burnt in the
> > > > > ovens
> > > > > came back as the Plowman sisters (or some of the
> > > > > Plowman sisters); the Nazis who died came back as
> > > > > Israelis.
> > > > >
> > > > > I still come back to this simple question: if you
> > > > > and your
> > > > > sisters love all people all that much, how do you
> > > > > come
> > > > > to the conclusion that the Israelis are reborn
> > > > > Nazis?
> > > >
> > > > A few Israelis, perhaps. Certainly, not all. This is
> > > > merely supposition, in any case, as we both know. But
> > > > I would say by observing the ones who manifest a
> > > > similar persona with a similar agenda (except for the
> > > > reversal of the victims), however you would describe a
> > > > Nazi. Sharon, perhaps? Hey, for all we know, Arafat
> > > > may have been a Jew in his past lifetime!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You write:
> > > > >
> > > > > > But may you not hate too much, it's bad for the
> > > > > soul
> > > > > > (I know, you don't believe in its existence. Oh,
> > > > > > well, so be it).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not the hater. I was taking exception to other
> > > > > folks'
> > > > > hatred. Is that allowed in your scheme of things?
> > > >
> > > > You were taking exception to others with your
> > > > assumption that they hated--sometimes an incorrect
> > > > one. And certainly, we've already been here...you're
> > > > allowed to be as incorrect as you like, and I'm
> > > > allowed to perceive you that way, whether you see it
> > > > that way or not.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes, it is totally bad for the soul. I believe
> > > > > in the
> > > > > existence of the soul, I just don't believe in its
> > > > > survival
> > > > > after death. That's for cowards who don't want to
> > > > > accept that they must die and stay dead.
> > > >
> > > > Death is a part of Life--they're not opposites--our
> > > > energies continue into perpetuity. Any scientist will
> > > > tell you that there is no energy on earth that can be
> > > > made to disappear completely--it merely transforms
> > > > into something else.
> > > >
> > > > It has nothing to do with being a coward or not. If
> > > > one leaves one's body and is awake, as everyone does
> > > > when sleeping, it's enough proof for me that there is
> > > > a soul. You're crossing a room. No, you're floating
> > > > across the room. You look down at your body. No
> > > > body. A light the color of a Peace Rose. Is that
> > > > Life?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And I aint got no agenda.
> > > >
> > > > Well, good, I'm glad to hear that!
> > > >
> > > > If you or others want to
> > > > > believe in up to 5 impossible things before
> > > > > breakfast
> > > > > like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, hey! be
> > > > > my guest!
> > > > >
> > > > Thanks, my friend, for taking a different tone with
> > > > me.
> > > >
> > > > Best to you,
> > > >
> > > > Pepi
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. When it comes to learning foreign languages,
> > > > > unless
> > > > > one is a very talented linguini, you hafta choose
> > > > > which
> > > > > one or two or three is it is worth learning in terms
> > > > > of
> > > > > what's written in said languages. Having been an
> > > > > Asian monk
> > > > > in a previous life, have you learnt or remembered
> > > > > how to
> > > > > speak or read Asian monk books? Or is that
> > > > > considered
> > > > > unnecessary.
> > > > >
> > > > Mostly, as I understand it, a veil drops when people
> > > > are born, hiding past lives from them. Some people
> > > > have bleedthroughs, like me and my sisters. I have
> > > > the ability (and so do my sisters) to learn any
> > > > language on earth, if we were to spend time in that
> > > > country. I've had Chinese friends and learned a few
> > > > words from them, but I've never been immersed in the
> > > > language; I've taken a couple of semesters of
> > > > Japanese, have a great accent and that is all--I loved
> > > > writing the kanji; the same could be said for German,
> > > > except I took it in high school for two years and
> > > > never opened the book (I thought it an ugly language);
> > > > I speak and write Spanish and French; defend myself in
> > > > Italian; have translated Portuguese; took three years
> > > > of Latin (but never bothered to study, so can't say I
> > > > really know it); can understand just about any Latin-
> > > > based language when spoken to me. My sister speaks
> > > > and writes really GOOD Spanish, Italian, French and
> > > > German; speaks Hebrew and some Arabic; wants to learn
> > > > Russian. I want to learn Chinese. Life isn't long
> > > > enough to learn every language or to remember every
> > > > past life.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
> > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>