I am not Ed Alexander
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Mon Mar 29 08:10:04 2004
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I have been reading the Koran off and on over the past few years. In =
translation, which most people say causes one to lose about 1/2 its =
actual beauty. I would love to read the Torah but I don't think that is =
going to happen. Just because I think there is no A Priori proof of the =
existence of G*D and we are trying to make sense of 2d Century BC desert =
mysticism is not to say that there is no beauty nor worth in these =
documents. =20
As you say, so well, one has to understand the context and be able to =
read these documents intelligently. Literal reading is like making soup =
without tasting it.
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frances Morey=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: I am not Ed Alexander=20
Wayne,
But Ed Alexander certainly embraced a number of us in Real de Catorce, =
celebrating that fine and unforgettable Thanksgiving. As for the bible, =
it is idiocy to demand that the stuff is a true blueprint for living as =
the fundamentalists tend to do. It has to be thought of in the context =
of the times it was written, or committed to paper, after centuries of =
the oral tradition passing it down. The strict interpretation of the =
bible is for stupid people who are untutored in the history of the book =
itself and how the stories might have evolved through countless =
translations from way back in time. Huey, I say. A book is a book, and I =
have never even contemplated reading it. Didn't have to--I went to =
Church often enough to hear all of it read to me in small segments over =
time. Little morality plays is what it was intended for, before =
scientific thought demonstrated that some of the biblical truths were =
poppycock. Perso! nally I would prefer Greek drama staged every Sunday =
morning, but they never asked me what I thought. BTW the existence of =
god, or not, is scientifically unprovable so it is idle talk to insist =
one way or the other since it is spiritual thing, within the mind of the =
believer and unknowable but to each person for themselves. When others =
try to proselytize about it is when there is potential for discomfort. =
You will believe what I want you to believe, god dagnabit! That's about =
mind control, and not highly personalized religious experience. Little =
is all good or all bad, it's a matter of degree.
Frances
Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
Hey, listen up there. If you were in the Car Business and had the =
Buick
franchise, would you want to have anything to do with a bunch of =
Ford-ites?
(Uh, this doesn't mean you, Jon, its just a metaphor.) Or Dodge-ers? =
No.
You try to keep things in your control. As in, revising and
burying/burning "alternative scripts". Or in this case, scriptures. =
Get
rid of all those "messy" Earth Mother images. And certainly get rid =
of
anything hinting at "mortal" behavior. Like birth via the ole birth =
canal
there and sleepin' with wimmin'. Y
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Judith M. Herr"=20
To:=20
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: I am not Ed Alexander
> Is this when we get to start talking about the removal from the =
stories of
> Jesus of Mary Magdalene as Jesus'wife and mother of his children?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Wayne =
Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:00 PM
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: I am not Ed Alexander
>
> What "truth" in the Bible? Beautiful stories and epic morality =
plays with
> lots of things to learn. Unless, of course, you think that it, the =
Bible,
> was actually conceived of and written in King James English. It is =
an
> important book among many important books dealing with similar =
subjects.
> As
> such, it is subject to interpretation and re-interpretation and =
often,
> deliberate, mis-quoting and horrific mis-use.
>
> It is, on the other hand, in no way, in and of itself, a =
"justification"
> for
> murder, vilification or social violence aga! inst *any other =
group*...even
> total non-believers. Only those with the intellectual capacity of =
a
> chocolate bunny view things that way. Ooops, value judgment =
sneaked in
> there. We don't need a New American Inquisition or Baptist Taliban =
in
this
> Millenium.
>
> Ever notice the difference between say, Martin Buber and Billy =
Graham. Or
> Tielhard de Chardin (sp?) and Pat Robertson? Or the "reported" =
behaviour
> of
> St. Francis and George Bush? There was another Protestant =
theologian I
> used to read back in the Sixties, oh yes, Paul Tillich. =
Contemporary
> Evangelists don't quote him much. That I have noticed anyway. =
Anyone for
> Kierkegaard these days?
>
> Agnostically yours,
>
> Rev. Bubba
> Church of the American Constitution
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Michael Eisenstadt"=20
> To:=20
>! ; Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:44 AM
> Subject: Ed Alexander is NOT one of us
>
>
> > well, of course, he's one of us. if there is anyone who is not =
one of
> > us, its me.
> >
> > Ed emailed to get off the list this morning in a letter quoting =
the
> > bad things I said about the truth of the bible. Apparently he or
> > Brigit thinks its the word of Gigoo. <-my pet name for Him
> >
> > i still believe that subscribers to this list are all lefties
politically
> > and some are new agers and some are standard secular types.
> >
> > Mike the secular leftie <-sounds lethal dont it?
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have been reading the Koran off and =
on over the=20
past few years. In translation, which most people say causes one =
to lose=20
about 1/2 its actual beauty. I would love to read the Torah but I =
don't=20
think that is going to happen. Just because I think there is no A =
Priori=20
proof of the existence of G*D and we are trying to make sense of 2d =
Century BC=20
desert mysticism is not to say that there is no beauty nor worth in =
these=20
documents. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As you say, so well, one has to =
understand the=20
context and be able to read these documents intelligently. Literal =
reading=20
is like making soup without tasting it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances=20
Morey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 28, 2004 =
8:19=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: I am not Ed =
Alexander </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV>But Ed Alexander certainly embraced a number of us in Real de=20
Catorce, celebrating that fine and unforgettable =
Thanksgiving. As=20
for the bible, it is idiocy to demand that the stuff is=20
a true blueprint for living as the =
fundamentalists tend=20
to do. It has to be thought of in the context of the times it was =
written, or committed to paper, after centuries of the oral tradition =
passing=20
it down. The strict interpretation of the bible is for stupid people =
who are=20
untutored in the history of the book itself and how the stories might =
have=20
evolved through countless translations from way back in time. =
Huey, I=20
say. A book is a book, and I have never even contemplated=20
reading it. Didn't have to--I went to Church often enough to hear =
all of=20
it read to me in small segments over time. Little morality plays is =
what it=20
was intended for, before scientific thought demonstrated that =
some of=20
the biblical truths were poppycock. Perso! nally I would prefer =
Greek=20
drama staged every Sunday morning, but they never asked me what I =
thought. BTW=20
the existence of god, or not, is scientifically unprovable so it is =
idle talk=20
to insist one way or the other since it is spiritual thing, within the =
mind of=20
the believer and unknowable but to each person for themselves. =
When=20
others try to proselytize about it is when there is potential for =
discomfort.=20
You will believe what I want you to believe, god dagnabit! That's =
about mind=20
control, and not highly personalized religious experience. Little =
is all=20
good or all bad, it's a matter of degree.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Wayne Johnson =
<cadaobh@shentel.net></I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">Hey,=20
listen up there. If you were in the Car Business and had the=20
Buick<BR>franchise, would you want to have anything to do with a =
bunch of=20
Ford-ites?<BR>(Uh, this doesn't mean you, Jon, its just a metaphor.) =
Or=20
Dodge-ers? No.<BR>You try to keep things in your control. As in, =
revising=20
and<BR>burying/burning "alternative scripts". Or in this case, =
scriptures.=20
Get<BR>rid of all those "messy" Earth Mother images. And certainly =
get rid=20
of<BR>anything hinting at "mortal" behavior. Like birth via the ole =
birth=20
canal<BR>there and sleepin' with wimmin'. Y<BR><BR>wj<BR>----- =
Original=20
Message ----- <BR>From: "Judith M. Herr" <HERRJ@COMCAST.NET><BR>To:=20
<AUSTIN-GHETTO-LIST@PAIRLIST.NET><BR>Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 =
4:50=20
PM<BR>Subject: RE: I am not Ed Alexander<BR><BR><BR>> Is this =
when we get=20
to start talking about the removal from the stories of<BR>> Jesus =
of Mary=20
Magdalene as Jesus'wife and mother of his=20
children?<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> -----Original =
Message-----<BR>>=20
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>>=20
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Wayne=20
Johnson<BR>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:00 PM<BR>> To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>> Subject: I am not Ed=20
Alexander<BR>><BR>> What "truth" in the Bible? Beautiful =
stories and=20
epic morality plays with<BR>> lots of things to learn. Unless, of =
course,=20
you think that it, the Bible,<BR>> was actually conceived of and =
written=20
in King James English. It is an<BR>> important book among many =
important=20
books dealing with similar subjects.<BR>> As<BR>> such, it is =
subject=20
to interpretation and re-interpretation and often,<BR>> =
deliberate,=20
mis-quoting and horrific mis-use.<BR>><BR>> It is, on the =
other hand,=20
in no way, in and of itself, a "justification"<BR>> for<BR>> =
murder,=20
vilification or social violence aga! inst *any other =
group*...even<BR>>=20
total non-believers. Only those with the intellectual capacity of =
a<BR>>=20
chocolate bunny view things that way. Ooops, value judgment sneaked=20
in<BR>> there. We don't need a New American Inquisition or =
Baptist=20
Taliban in<BR>this<BR>> Millenium.<BR>><BR>> Ever notice =
the=20
difference between say, Martin Buber and Billy Graham. Or<BR>> =
Tielhard=20
de Chardin (sp?) and Pat Robertson? Or the "reported" =
behaviour<BR>>=20
of<BR>> St. Francis and George Bush? There was another Protestant =
theologian I<BR>> used to read back in the Sixties, oh yes, Paul =
Tillich.=20
Contemporary<BR>> Evangelists don't quote him much. That I have =
noticed=20
anyway. Anyone for<BR>> Kierkegaard these days?<BR>><BR>>=20
Agnostically yours,<BR>><BR>> Rev. Bubba<BR>> Church of the =
American Constitution<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> =
From:=20
"Michael Eisenstadt" <MICHAELE@ANDO.PAIR.COM><BR>> To:=20
<AUSTIN-GHETTO-LIST@PAIRLIST.NET><BR>>! ; Sent: Sunday, March 28, =
2004=20
10:44 AM<BR>> Subject: Ed Alexander is NOT one of=20
us<BR>><BR>><BR>> > well, of course, he's one of us. if =
there is=20
anyone who is not one of<BR>> > us, its me.<BR>> =
><BR>> >=20
Ed emailed to get off the list this morning in a letter quoting =
the<BR>>=20
> bad things I said about the truth of the bible. Apparently he=20
or<BR>> > Brigit thinks its the word of Gigoo. <-my pet =
name for=20
Him<BR>> ><BR>> > i still believe that subscribers to =
this list=20
are all lefties<BR>politically<BR>> > and some are new agers =
and some=20
are standard secular types.<BR>> ><BR>> > Mike the =
secular=20
leftie <-sounds lethal dont it?<BR>> ><BR>>=20
=
><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DI=
V>
<P>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<FONT face=3Darial size=3D-1>Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html"><B>Yahoo! Finance Tax =
Center</A></B>=20
- File online. File on time.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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