surprise! godly men can be rightous and have fun, too...
Frances Morey
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Wed Mar 31 00:28:00 2004
--0-1067427960-1080710767=:48878
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Wayne,
Nope, they are one and the same. The way I heard it was that he clashed vociferously with his fellow clergymen in assembly over the cause of civil rights. He thought they were not doing enough and let them hear about it during a clergy convention. They disdained him for this unseemly posturing, to their viewpoint, and decided to not assign him another church, if not officially defrocking him, depriving him of a place of work. That's when he went back to the practice of veterinary medicine.
He and Jenna also spent some years living on his ranch in Mexico. He was full of wit and wisdom and had wonderful parties over on Wheeler St. He attended my wedding in Castroville--Roy and I were one of the few couples from our circle of friends for whom he did not perform the wedding ceremony, because we were married in the Catholic church.
It was remarkable that years later at his Memorial service at St. James the head of the Episcopal Theological Seminary spoke about him and his mission advocating civil rights for African Americans. He admitted that Louis had been right and they were dead wrong--that time had proved Louis Buck's position to be the true righteous one and he apologized for their lapse in judgment. It was a stunning admission from a church elder and totally vindicated Louis.
Frances
Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck had been de-frocked at one time. Were there two reverend-slash-veterinareans in Austin named Buck?
wj
----- Original Message -----
From: Frances Morey
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: surprise! god springs from each of us...
Judy,
Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, that is said to be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in East Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend Dr. Louis Buck. It was through his wit and wisdom that so many of us learned to love men of faith. That church was where I shook the Bishop's hand, at Louis Buck's Memorial, when he extended me his ring. Louis would have approved.
Frances
Monty/Judy <m.herr@comcast.net> wrote:
Francis - I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about the
UU Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and celebrations
around Austin
Judith M. Herr
Well Chosen Words
herrj@comcast.net
925-443-4514; 925-989-3723 (mobile)
925-292-1419 (FAX)
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Frances Morey
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...
tele,
Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all alike to me--just kidding. You
make it sound like a delightful place. Thanks for the link. I have known
some wonderful East Indians, some of whom have become lifelong friends.
Frances
--- On Tue 03/30, telebob &! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
From: telebob [mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29 -0600
Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...
class=484063816-30032004>Jesus
Frances! That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. That
is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.
class=484063816-30032004>
class=484063816-30032004>href="http://barsanadham.org">http://barsanadham.org
>
class=484063816-30032004>
class=484063816-30032004>They
are great people and it is wonderful little community out there. They have
some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their calendar and
attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year for several
years. They loved the elephant rides and the henna
'tattoos'.
class=484063816-30032004>They
have the best peaches in Texas.
class=484063816-30032004>
class=484063816-30032004>Shree
Telebhob
size=2>-----Original Message-----
From:
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Frances
Morey
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM
To:
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: surprise! god is
in
each of us...
Pepi,
I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the one out
290
on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming gold tile
on the
entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I would love
to view it up close, and see what the service is like. I thought
Gregorian chant in the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was
wonderful.
Francse
Pepi Plowman
wrote:
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">The
only thing I ever liked about church was the
music. The sermons put
me to
sleep. We had one
fairly intelligent and educated minister at
our
community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with
the
Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he
sometimes gave thought
provoking sermons, but then we
got a fire and brimstone guy and
everyone
slept
through his exhortations. He was always trying to
save
somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked
Quaker meeting
because
it was quiet sometimes, except
for when people got up to speak. The
Episcopalians and
Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and
repeat
after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any
kind or
a
mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all
the major choral works,
especially Bach. I sang them
! in choirs in highschool and later.
There was
some
totally inspired church music written that makes me
want to
fly
when I hear it.
pep
--- Wayne Johnson
wrote:
> My problem is that most of my early
Church
> experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon
>
protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other
> religions whilst
insisting that Jesus should be the
> half back on your football
team.
This drivel would
> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed
to
> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The
> single
person of deep religious faith that I knew
> personally and
respected
was Rev. Heinsohn of the
> University Methodist Church on the Drag.
I
worked
> there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at
>
UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and
> his sermons
were
absent of cli! che or dumb harangues.
> By any measure, a great person
and a credit to our
> species.
>
> wj
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: Frances Morey
> To:
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54
PM
> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
>
>
> Wayne,
> These incidences of kindness are multiplied
>
thousands of times as church members all over are
> moved to help
their fellow humans. I've seen it in
> action and even experienced
some of it myself in my
> darkest moments. The church is the Other
place, away
> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the
>
marketplace, where people can be quite and
> contemplative in
humility, surrounded by peace and
> quiet or ethereal music, and
participating in the
> familiar and predictable process of the
liturgy, if
! > a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating
with
> the singing of hymns, if they happen to be
> protestant.
I always prefered the Catholic practice
> of keeping the whole
service
to an hour, homily and
> all. That is merely the excuse for being
together,
> though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in
>
which we immerse ourselves and the churches are
> places we are able
to find other humans who are
> capable and willing to express good
will--I believe
> that is so, anyway. My church experiences have
been
> as described and if not I certainly let them hear
> about
it. But that's another story.
> Frances
>
> Wayne
Johnson wrote:
> I just found out yesterday
that
a very dear
> friend of our in Reston has
> contract ALS and it
has already progessed to the
> point where he can barely
! > brush
his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and
> his wife had joined
a
> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and
> these
good people have
> taken it upon themselves to provide a world
of
> kindness, gentleness, love
> and direct physical and
emotional assistance to
> him and his wife. This
> includes
visits, shopping trips with and without
> him, food deliveries
and
> compansionship.
>
> To my old timey way of
thinking, this is what
> "churches" used to do: love
> people
and be supportive of those in need. Every
> so often it is good (for
me
> in particular) to be reminded that there are
> those who
actually practice
> what their religion suggests is
"Christian"
> behavior. Of course, the
> Unitarians aren't
exactly boil! er-plate,
> orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe
>
Ben ! Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.
> Washington as well.
Not
> exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these
> congregations
accept neo-pagan
> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only
other
> church I have found with
> similar sentiments was a
(Scottish) Episcopal
> church in Campbell, CA.
> Campbell being
vurrry Scottish as a person and a
> clan.
>
> Anyway.
Have to say sometimes the sysems works
> and works to the benefit
of
> some who really, really deserve it.
>
> wj
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pepi Plowman"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
> Subject: RE: let's
not do nuance
>
>
> > Wayne, Judy, Tele,
>
>
> > I'm with you all the way on the first part.
> God,
what
> > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate
>
further,!
> > below...
> > --- telebob wrote:
> >
> Wayne-
> > >
> > >! ; I think as you do, and
thank you for
> reminding us
> > > that most priests
and
> > > factotems are basically criminals who spread
>
> > cultural myths
> >
> > totally. Myths that
preceded that particular
> religion
> > which the priests and
factotems accepted as
> truth and
> > preached, or myths that
were flagrantly made
> up to
> > suit a cultural bias in
order to bring more
> ignorant
> > humans to the
"fold".
> >
> > (all the better
> > > if they
believe what they preach, it makes
> it easier
> > > for
them to sleep)in
> > > order to retain and extend personal
and
> > > institutional power. This is not to
> > > say that there are no benefits, since those
> common
> > >
mythyologies help to
> > > create a 'public order' no matter
what the
> standard.
> > > Are religious
> > >
societies 'better' than secular societies?
> >
> > Fuck,
no!
> >
> > How do
> > > ! we measure? These
are
> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and
> indeed
you
> > > know they are out there
> > > discussing
this shit still, like a bunch of
> > > sophomores who have
just
> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> >
> > How
dare they abuse us by discussing them?!
> State and
> >
religion should not mix, Point!
> > >
> > > But my
dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> > > 'philosophical' mood one
night, a
> > > little in his cups,! and he related. "I
watch
> people
> > > die and people born
> > >
every day as a part of my job, and all I can
> say is,
> >
> 'Where does the flame
> > > go when it goes out?' Does the
flame have a
> soul?"
> >
> > So, did he ever answer
his question, or did he
> just
> > ask?
> >
>
> > He was not a religious
> > > man, though he tried to
keep up appearances.
> On the
> > > other hand, he
was
> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his
>
taxes and
> > > never breaking a traffic
> > >
law.
> > >
> > > So when we are approached by 'holy
men' of
> any
> > > stripe, know you are being
>
> > approached by the powers of darkness.
> >
> > Do
you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman
> out
> >
there?!
> >
> > This includes
> > > rabbis,
priests,
> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my
>
faith in
> > > the scientific method and
> > > its
self correcting process.
> > >
> >
> > Man,
I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
> > correcting process"
inflicted on me by a
> source
> > outside myself (like
doctors and lawyers and
> > policemen) when I had resources
available to
> me that
>
=== message truncated
===
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<DIV>
<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV>Nope, they are one and the same. The way I heard it was that he clashed vociferously with his fellow clergymen in assembly over the cause of civil rights. He thought they were not doing enough and let them hear about it during a clergy convention. They disdained him for this unseemly posturing, to their viewpoint, and decided to not assign him another church, if not officially defrocking him, depriving him of a place of work. That's when he went back to the practice of veterinary medicine. </DIV>
<DIV>He and Jenna also spent some years living on his ranch in Mexico. He was full of wit and wisdom and had wonderful parties over on Wheeler St. He attended my wedding in Castroville--Roy and I were one of the few couples from our circle of friends for whom he did not perform the wedding ceremony, because we were married in the Catholic church.</DIV>
<DIV>It was remarkable that years later at his Memorial service at St. James the head of the Episcopal Theological Seminary spoke about him and his mission advocating civil rights for African Americans. He admitted that Louis had been right and they were dead wrong--that time had proved Louis Buck's position to be the true righteous one and he apologized for their lapse in judgment. It was a stunning admission from a church elder and totally vindicated Louis.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck had been de-frocked at one time. Were there two reverend-slash-veterinareans in Austin named Buck?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=frances_morey@yahoo.com href="mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances Morey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net href="mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:48 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: surprise! god springs from each of us...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Judy,</DIV>
<DIV>Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, that is said to be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in East Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend Dr. Louis Buck. It was through his wit and wisdom that so many of us learned to love men of faith. That church was where I shook the Bishop's hand, at Louis Buck's Memorial, when he extended me his ring. Louis would have approved.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Monty/Judy <m.herr@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Francis - I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about the<BR>UU Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and celebrations<BR>around Austin <BR><BR>Judith M. Herr<BR>Well Chosen Words<BR>herrj@comcast.net<BR>925-443-4514; 925-989-3723 (mobile)<BR>925-292-1419 (FAX)<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Frances Morey<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM<BR>To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...<BR><BR><BR>tele,<BR>Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all alike to me--just kidding. You<BR>make it sound like a delightful place. Thanks for the link. I have known<BR>some wonderful East Indians, some of whom have become lifelong friends.<BR>Frances<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On Tue 03/30, telebob &! lt;
telebob@sbcglobal.net > wrote:<BR>From: telebob [mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]<BR>To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29 -0600<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN<BR>class=484063816-30032004>Jesus <BR>Frances! That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. That <BR>is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN <br>class=484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN<BR>class=484063816-30032004><A <br>href="http://barsanadham.org">http://barsanadham.org</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV<BR>><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN <br>class=484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN<BR>class=484063816-30032004>They <BR>are great people and it is wonderful little community out there. They have<BR><BR>some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their calendar and<BR><BR>attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year for several <BR>years. They loved the elephant rides and the henna <BR>'tattoos'.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN<BR>class=484063816-30032004>They <BR>have the best peaches in Texas.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN <br>class=484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN<BR>class=484063816-30032004>Shree <BR>Telebhob</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma <br>size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <BR>austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net <BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Frances<BR><BR>Morey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM<BR><B>To:</B> <BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: surprise! god is<BR>in <BR>each of us...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV>Pepi,</DIV><BR>
<DIV>I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the one out<BR>290 <BR>on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming gold tile<BR>on the <BR>entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I would love <BR>to view it up close, and see what the service is like. I thought <BR>Gregorian chant in the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was<BR>wonderful.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Francse<BR><BR><B><I>Pepi Plowman <PEPSTOIL@YAHOO.COM></I></B><BR>wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq <br>style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px<BR>solid">The <BR>only thing I ever liked about church was the<BR>music. The sermons put<BR>me to <BR>sleep. We had one<BR>fairly intelligent and educated minister at <BR>our<BR>community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with<BR>the <BR>Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he<BR>sometimes gave thought <BR>provoking sermons, but then we<BR>got a fire and brimstone guy and<BR>everyone <BR>slept<BR>through his exhortations. He was always trying to<BR>save <BR>somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked<BR>Quaker meeting<BR>because <BR>it was quiet sometimes, except<BR>for when people got up to speak. The <BR>Episcopalians and<BR>Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and <BR>repeat<BR>after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any<BR>kind or<BR>a <BR>mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all<BR>the major choral works, <BR>especially Bach. I sang them<BR>! in
choirs in highschool and later.<BR>There was <BR>some<BR>totally inspired church music written that makes me<BR>want to<BR>fly <BR>when I hear it.<BR>pep<BR>--- Wayne Johnson <BR><CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> My problem is that most of my early <BR>Church<BR>> experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon<BR>> <BR>protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other<BR>> religions whilst<BR><BR>insisting that Jesus should be the<BR>> half back on your football<BR>team. <BR>This drivel would<BR>> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed <BR>to<BR>> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The<BR>> single <BR>person of deep religious faith that I knew<BR>> personally and<BR>respected <BR>was Rev. Heinsohn of the<BR>> University Methodist Church on the Drag.<BR>I <BR>worked<BR>> there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at<BR>> <BR>UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and<BR>> his sermons<BR>were <BR>absent of cli!
che or dumb harangues.<BR>> By any measure, a great person<BR><BR>and a credit to our<BR>> species.<BR>> <BR>> wj<BR>> ----- <BR>Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Frances Morey <BR>> To: <BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net <BR>> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54<BR><BR>PM<BR>> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...<BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>> Wayne,<BR>> These incidences of kindness are multiplied<BR>> <BR>thousands of times as church members all over are<BR>> moved to help <BR>their fellow humans. I've seen it in<BR>> action and even experienced <BR>some of it myself in my<BR>> darkest moments. The church is the Other <BR>place, away<BR>> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the<BR>> <BR>marketplace, where people can be quite and<BR>> contemplative in <BR>humility, surrounded by peace and<BR>> quiet or ethereal music, and <BR>participating in the<BR>> familiar and predictable process of the <BR>liturgy, if<BR>!
> a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating <BR>with<BR>> the singing of hymns, if they happen to be<BR>> protestant. <BR>I always prefered the Catholic practice<BR>> of keeping the whole<BR>service <BR>to an hour, homily and<BR>> all. That is merely the excuse for being <BR>together,<BR>> though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in<BR>> <BR>which we immerse ourselves and the churches are<BR>> places we are able<BR><BR>to find other humans who are<BR>> capable and willing to express good <BR>will--I believe<BR>> that is so, anyway. My church experiences have <BR>been<BR>> as described and if not I certainly let them hear<BR>> about <BR>it. But that's another story.<BR>> Frances <BR>> <BR>> Wayne <BR>Johnson <CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> I just found out yesterday<BR>that <BR>a very dear<BR>> friend of our in Reston has<BR>> contract ALS and it <BR>has already progessed to the<BR>> point where he can barely<BR>!
> brush <BR>his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and<BR>> his wife had joined <BR>a<BR>> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and<BR>> these <BR>good people have<BR>> taken it upon themselves to provide a world <BR>of<BR>> kindness, gentleness, love<BR>> and direct physical and <BR>emotional assistance to<BR>> him and his wife. This<BR>> includes <BR>visits, shopping trips with and without<BR>> him, food deliveries <BR>and<BR>> compansionship.<BR>> <BR>> To my old timey way of <BR>thinking, this is what<BR>> "churches" used to do: love<BR>> people <BR>and be supportive of those in need. Every<BR>> so often it is good (for<BR><BR>me<BR>> in particular) to be reminded that there are<BR>> those who <BR>actually practice<BR>> what their religion suggests is <BR>"Christian"<BR>> behavior. Of course, the<BR>> Unitarians aren't <BR>exactly boil! er-plate,<BR>> orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe<BR>> <BR>Ben !
Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.<BR>> Washington as well. <BR>Not<BR>> exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these<BR>> congregations <BR>accept neo-pagan<BR>> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only <BR>other<BR>> church I have found with<BR>> similar sentiments was a <BR>(Scottish) Episcopal<BR>> church in Campbell, CA.<BR>> Campbell being <BR>vurrry Scottish as a person and a<BR>> clan.<BR>> <BR>> Anyway. <BR>Have to say sometimes the sysems works<BR>> and works to the benefit <BR>of<BR>> some who really, really deserve it.<BR>> <BR>> wj<BR>> <BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Pepi Plowman" <BR>> To: <BR><BR>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM<BR>> Subject: RE: let's <BR>not do nuance<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Wayne, Judy, Tele,<BR>> <BR>><BR>> > I'm with you all the way on the first part.<BR>> God, <BR>what<BR>> > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate<BR>>
<BR>further,! <BR>> > below...<BR>> > --- telebob wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> Wayne-<BR>> > ><BR>> > >! ; I think as you do, and <BR>thank you for<BR>> reminding us<BR>> > > that most priests <BR>and<BR>> > > factotems are basically criminals who spread<BR>> <BR>> > cultural myths<BR>> ><BR>> > totally. Myths that <BR>preceded that particular<BR>> religion<BR>> > which the priests and <BR>factotems accepted as<BR>> truth and<BR>> > preached, or myths that <BR>were flagrantly made<BR>> up to<BR>> > suit a cultural bias in <BR>order to bring more<BR>> ignorant<BR>> > humans to the <BR>"fold".<BR>> ><BR>> > (all the better<BR>> > > if they <BR>believe what they preach, it makes<BR>> it easier<BR>> > > for <BR>them to sleep)in<BR>> > > order to retain and extend personal <BR>and<BR>> > > institutional power. This is not
to<BR>> > > <B! R>say that there are no benefits, since those<BR>> common<BR>> > > <BR>mythyologies help to<BR>> > > create a 'public order' no matter <BR>what the<BR>> standard.<BR>> > > Are religious<BR>> > > <BR>societies 'better' than secular societies?<BR>> ><BR>> > Fuck, <BR>no!<BR>> ><BR>> > How do<BR>> > > ! we measure? These <BR>are<BR>> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and<BR>> indeed <BR>you<BR>> > > know they are out there<BR>> > > discussing <BR>this shit still, like a bunch of<BR>> > > sophomores who have <BR>just<BR>> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.<BR>> ><BR>> > How <BR>dare they abuse us by discussing them?!<BR>> State and<BR>> > <BR>religion should not mix, Point!<BR>> > ><BR>> > > But my <BR>dad, who was a doctor, was in a<BR>> > > 'philosophical' mood one <BR>night, a<BR>> >
> little in his cups,! and he related. "I <BR>watch<BR>> people<BR>> > > die and people born<BR>> > > <BR>every day as a part of my job, and all I can<BR>> say is,<BR>> > <BR>> 'Where does the flame<BR>> > > go when it goes out?' Does the <BR>flame have a<BR>> soul?"<BR>> ><BR>> > So, did he ever answer <BR>his question, or did he<BR>> just<BR>> > ask?<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> > He was not a religious<BR>> > > man, though he tried to <BR>keep up appearances.<BR>> On the<BR>> > > other hand, he <BR>was<BR>> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his<BR>> <BR>taxes and<BR>> > > never breaking a traffic<BR>> > > <BR>law.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > So when we are approached by 'holy <BR>men' of<BR>> any<BR>> > > stripe, know you are being<BR>> <BR>> > approached by the powers of darkness.<BR>> ><BR>> > Do <BR>you
really believe there is a! Big Boogyman<BR>> out<BR>> > <BR>there?!<BR>> ><BR>> > This includes<BR>> > > rabbis, <BR>priests,<BR>> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my<BR>> <BR>faith in<BR>> > > the scientific method and<BR>> > > its <BR>self correcting process.<BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> > Man, <BR>I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self<BR>> > correcting process" <BR>inflicted on me by a<BR>> source<BR>> > outside myself (like <BR>doctors and lawyers and<BR>> > policemen) when I had resources <BR>available to<BR>> me that<BR>> <BR>=== message truncated <BR>===<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you <BR>Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on <BR>time.<BR>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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