surprise! god is in each of us...
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Wed Mar 31 00:40:03 2004
Two things that, for me, argue for a "greater vision" or some such are:
Gothic cathedrals and J.S.Bach. Interestingly, both of these are creations
of vastly different eras. In modern times, only Gandhi provides much
argument.
The world lost Alistair Cooke yesterday.
wj
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pepi Plowman" <pepstoil@yahoo.com>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
> The only thing I ever liked about church was the
> music. The sermons put me to sleep. We had one
> fairly intelligent and educated minister at our
> community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with
> the Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he
> sometimes gave thought provoking sermons, but then we
> got a fire and brimstone guy and everyone slept
> through his exhortations. He was always trying to
> save somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked
> Quaker meeting because it was quiet sometimes, except
> for when people got up to speak. The Episcopalians and
> Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and repeat
> after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any
> kind or a mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all
> the major choral works, especially Bach. I sang them
> in choirs in highschool and later. There was some
> totally inspired church music written that makes me
> want to fly when I hear it.
> pep
> --- Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
> > My problem is that most of my early Church
> > experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon
> > protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other
> > religions whilst insisting that Jesus should be the
> > half back on your football team. This drivel would
> > stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed to
> > go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The
> > single person of deep religious faith that I knew
> > personally and respected was Rev. Heinsohn of the
> > University Methodist Church on the Drag. I worked
> > there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at
> > UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and
> > his sermons were absent of cliche or dumb harangues.
> > By any measure, a great person and a credit to our
> > species.
> >
> > wj
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Frances Morey
> > To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
> >
> >
> > Wayne,
> > These incidences of kindness are multiplied
> > thousands of times as church members all over are
> > moved to help their fellow humans. I've seen it in
> > action and even experienced some of it myself in my
> > darkest moments. The church is the Other place, away
> > from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the
> > marketplace, where people can be quite and
> > contemplative in humility, surrounded by peace and
> > quiet or ethereal music, and participating in the
> > familiar and predictable process of the liturgy, if
> > a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating with
> > the singing of hymns, if they happen to be
> > protestant. I always prefered the Catholic practice
> > of keeping the whole service to an hour, homily and
> > all. That is merely the excuse for being together,
> > though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in
> > which we immerse ourselves and the churches are
> > places we are able to find other humans who are
> > capable and willing to express good will--I believe
> > that is so, anyway. My church experiences have been
> > as described and if not I certainly let them hear
> > about it. But that's another story.
> > Frances
> >
> > Wayne Johnson <cadaobh@shentel.net> wrote:
> > I just found out yesterday that a very dear
> > friend of our in Reston has
> > contract ALS and it has already progessed to the
> > point where he can barely
> > brush his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and
> > his wife had joined a
> > local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and
> > these good people have
> > taken it upon themselves to provide a world of
> > kindness, gentleness, love
> > and direct physical and emotional assistance to
> > him and his wife. This
> > includes visits, shopping trips with and without
> > him, food deliveries and
> > compansionship.
> >
> > To my old timey way of thinking, this is what
> > "churches" used to do: love
> > people and be supportive of those in need. Every
> > so often it is good (for me
> > in particular) to be reminded that there are
> > those who actually practice
> > what their religion suggests is "Christian"
> > behavior. Of course, the
> > Unitarians aren't exactly boil! er-plate,
> > orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe
> > Ben Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.
> > Washington as well. Not
> > exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these
> > congregations accept neo-pagan
> > beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only other
> > church I have found with
> > similar sentiments was a (Scottish) Episcopal
> > church in Campbell, CA.
> > Campbell being vurrry Scottish as a person and a
> > clan.
> >
> > Anyway. Have to say sometimes the sysems works
> > and works to the benefit of
> > some who really, really deserve it.
> >
> > wj
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pepi Plowman"
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
> > Subject: RE: let's not do nuance
> >
> >
> > > Wayne, Judy, Tele,
> > >
> > > I'm with you all the way on the first part.
> > God, what
> > > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate
> > further,
> > > below...
> > > --- telebob wrote:
> > > > Wayne-
> > > >
> > > >! ; I think as you do, and thank you for
> > reminding us
> > > > that most priests and
> > > > factotems are basically criminals who spread
> > > > cultural myths
> > >
> > > totally. Myths that preceded that particular
> > religion
> > > which the priests and factotems accepted as
> > truth and
> > > preached, or myths that were flagrantly made
> > up to
> > > suit a cultural bias in order to bring more
> > ignorant
> > > humans to the "fold".
> > >
> > > (all the better
> > > > if they believe what they preach, it makes
> > it easier
> > > > for them to sleep)in
> > > > order to retain and extend personal and
> > > > institutional power. This is not to
> > > > say that there are no benefits, since those
> > common
> > > > mythyologies help to
> > > > create a 'public order' no matter what the
> > standard.
> > > > Are religious
> > > > societies 'better' than secular societies?
> > >
> > > Fuck, no!
> > >
> > > How do
> > > > ! we measure? These are
> > > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and
> > indeed you
> > > > know they are out there
> > > > discussing this shit still, like a bunch of
> > > > sophomores who have just
> > > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> > >
> > > How dare they abuse us by discussing them?!
> > State and
> > > religion should not mix, Point!
> > > >
> > > > But my dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> > > > 'philosophical' mood one night, a
> > > > little in his cups, and he related. "I watch
> > people
> > > > die and people born
> > > > every day as a part of my job, and all I can
> > say is,
> > > > 'Where does the flame
> > > > go when it goes out?' Does the flame have a
> > soul?"
> > >
> > > So, did he ever answer his question, or did he
> > just
> > > ask?
> > >
> > > > He was not a religious
> > > > man, though he tried to keep up appearances.
> > On the
> > > > other hand, he was
> > > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his
> > taxes and
> > > > never breaking a traffic
> > > > law.
> > > >
> > > > So when we are approached by 'holy men' of
> > any
> > > > stripe, know you are being
> > > > approached by the powers of darkness.
> > >
> > > Do you really believe there is a Big Boogyman
> > out
> > > there?!
> > >
> > > This includes
> > > > rabbis, priests,
> > > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my
> > faith in
> > > > the scientific method and
> > > > its self correcting process.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Man, I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
> > > correcting process" inflicted on me by a
> > source
> > > outside myself (like doctors and lawyers and
> > > policemen) when I had resources available to
> > me that
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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