Underengineered 'Murken Bomber
Byron Black
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Wed Jun 2 10:47:40 2004
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My understanding is that it was Pentagon politics that doomed the YB-49, =
John Northrop's 'pure-wing' dream that was so far ahead of its time. The =
B-36 was a cobbled-together hodge-podge that my Dad (SAC Major) said was =
terrificaly unreliable, particularly in the piston-engine section (six =
piston radials, two little jet pods on the end of the non-swept-back =
wings, if you recall). I remember seeing them when we lived at =
Limestone/Loring AFB up at the tip of Maine, in 1952.
The B-52 has exceeded all expectations and continues to perform to this =
day, but I have read that it is for all its bulk a quite uncomfortable =
and user-unfriendly plane for the crew to fly in (in spite of the $400 =
toilet seats -- remember that brouhaha?). Few creature comforts for =
those 13-hour flights to nowhere, circling North America and watching =
for the Russkies.
Then don't forget the B-47 'Stratojet' (sounds like some bulbous beast =
from GM), which came between the B-36 and the B-52. Little itsy-bitsy =
landing gear assemblies at the end of the wingtips. Weird.
Quote:
B-47 research and development began in 1945 with the first prototype =
flight in December 1947. The Air Force wanted a high-altitude, =
medium-range, subsonic bomber. At that time, four contractors were =
developing bombers. Two designs were conventional bombers in the mold of =
the B-29, while the more radical designs were the Northrop flying wing =
and the Boeing swept wing jet. In this era before the SAM, fighter =
aircraft were considered the main threat to bombers. World War II had =
shown that stripped down B-29's with near-fighter speed and a higher =
altitude ceiling could only be successfully intercepted from the rear.=20
With the speed and maneuverability of the fighters of the late forties, =
Boeing's swept-wing XB-47 won the bomber competition and swiftly =
transformed the XB-46 and the XB-48 into aviation footnotes. Six Allison =
J35-2 turbojet engines slung in pods beneath the swept-back wings gave =
the prototype Stratojet nimble performance, and helped to validate a =
design concept still widely used today. Although uprated J47-GE-3s were =
soon substituted, the B-47 also carried mountings for 18 solid-fuel =
booster rockets in the aft fuselage to shorten the takeoff roll. Flight =
testing continued through 1951, and B-47's began entering the inventory =
in 1952. ICBMs and SLBMs did not yet exist, and the penetrating bomber =
was the only nuclear strike vehicle available. A total of 2,039 B-47's =
were funded and built in a serial production that lasted until 1956.=20
The B-47 was the first pure jet strategic bomber whose many unique =
features included six jet engines; a two-engine, pylon-mounted pod under =
each wing near the fuselage; and a single-engine pod further outboard. =
The wings were attached high on the fuselage and swept 35. The design =
incorporated a revolutionary bicycle-type, retractable main landing gear =
with single, two-wheel struts on the forward and aft fuselage. Outrigger =
wheels added lateral stability and retracted into the two-engine pod =
cowling. The B-47 was 107 feet long, 28 feet high at the tail, and had a =
wing span of 116 feet. The crew consisted of a pilot, copilot, and =
bombardier. With a maximum gross weight of about 204,000 pounds, it used =
rocket assist on takeoff. A tail chute was used to slow down the =
aircraft during landings.=20
Although heavier than the heaviest World War II bomber, the B-47 was =
designed to be a medium-range penetrator with approximately a 3,500-nm =
range. This was not a problem in the early 1950's since forward basing =
was available in the United Kingdom, Spain, Morocco, Guam, and Alaska. =
In addition, the B-47 was equipped with an air refueling capability and, =
on several occasions, 36-hour missions were flown. Thus, when it =
initially entered the inventory, its range was sufficient.=20
The aircraft's payload capacity was limited to 20,000 pounds internally. =
Since nuclear weapons were large in the early 1950's, the bomb bay was =
limited to one or two of high yield. But this lack of payload capacity =
was compensated for by the large numbers of B-47's that were purchased =
(at a cost of less than $2 million per airplane) which resulted in an =
acceptable overall weapon delivery capacity. The B-47 was also capable =
of carrying 13 500-pound or 8 1,000-pound conventional bombs.52 Although =
no B-47 squadron was ever equipped with any type of missile, the B-47 =
was used on several occasions as a test aircraft for missile launches. =
The biggest aid to the B-47 payload was nuclear weapon technology which =
developed smaller weapons.=20
Serial production made incorporating changes easier; the most numerous =
models were the B and E series. There were many production improvements =
made to include more powerful engines with water injection, the addition =
of tail guns, ejection seats, increased maximum gross weight, and bomb =
bay modifications for new weapons technology. Once deployed, =
modifications were numerous. The most significant was the structural =
revision to convert the B-47 from a high to a low altitude penetrator =
due to the development of Soviet SAMs in the mid 1950's. In May 1960, =
Gary Powers' U-2 was shot down by a Soviet SAM, vividly demonstrating =
Soviet high altitude defense capabilities.=20
Besides structural modifications, ECM and other avionics were updated. =
Some B-47's were modified into reconnaissance and other specialized =
aircraft. Since space was a limitation, most aircraft modified for =
reconnaissance and special missions were not capable of carrying bombs. =
However, the RB-47B could be converted back to a bomber. The B-47 had =
the capability to be modified but was restricted by space limitations.=20
By 1956, B-47 deployment reached its peak with over 1,300 assigned to =
SAC. In addition about 250 RB-47s were in SAC at that time. =
Subsequently, phase out of the B-47 took place in the 1960s. In 1960 =
there were still almost 1,100 B-47s. This dropped to about 400 in 1964 =
and in 1966 the last B-47 had been phased out though a few RB-47s were =
retained until 1967. The phase out of the B-47 medium bomber coincided =
with the rapid build up of ICBM and SLBM deployment by the US.=20
The B-47's were phased out in the early 1960's with the last ones =
leaving the inventory by the end of 1965. The B-47 had shown flexibility =
in adapting to a low level mission profile that was required by the =
introduction of SAMs. But modifications to a large fleet (especially =
structural modifications) cost vast sums of money. Moreover, forward =
basing of strategic nuclear forces was becoming unpopular with our =
allies, and there was not enough tanker support to make up the range =
difference for CONUS basing of all the B-47's. The B-58, planned as a =
replacement for the B-47, started entering the inventory in 1960. Also, =
the B-52, designed as an outgrowth of the B-47, was proving to be a very =
capable strategic bomber. Thus, the combination of mission profile =
changes, which limited B-47's usefulness and the emergence of a =
replacement medium-range bomber and a truly long-range strategic bomber, =
led to the retirement of the B-47's after 14 years of service.=20
In summary, the B-47 was a technological innovation in bomber aircraft =
design with swept wings, jet engines, the ability to be air refueled, =
and an operational envelope equal to the fighter aircraft of the early =
1950's. The Stratojet was also one of the more beautiful airplanes to =
grace America's skies. However, it was a medium-range bomber that had =
limitations on space, payload, and range. When deployed, the B-47 was =
adequate to perform its designed mission. While it was able to adapt to =
changes in the threat at significant cost, it was not able to keep up =
with a heightened threat and greater range requirements, thus making =
other available aircraft that did the job better more viable.=20
Ah for those days of, er, hmm, maybe not so either, heh heh.
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Gerry Storm=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Weird War Craft
When I was in pre-lang training at Kelly AFB our building was =
occasionally shaken by a great monster warming up on a runway about 1/2 =
mile away. It was the C-99, cargo version of the B-36. At the time it =
was the largest aircraft ever built and I believe still the largest =
motor driven aircraft ever. Only saw it take off once, usually they just =
ran it down the runway a ways. It was said that they could load an =
entire brigade (or whatever) on this monster, men, equipment and all, =
but finding an landing strip large enough to accomodate it was not easy, =
nor was the return trip flying it empty.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Consolidated-Vultee%20C-99
Ah yes, the days of the piston engined aircraft, with the B-36 =
reigning supreme--until the B-52 (one of the great triumphs of American =
techology) came along and put it into mothballs. Those of us born and =
raised in Texas were priviledged to see them in our skies and hear their =
mighty roars and dream that one day we would fly or at least ride in =
one...alas, I spent most of my flying days in one not so grand, the =
C-119, better known as the "pregnant guppie".
G
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Byron Black=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 6:34 AM
Subject: Weird War Craft
Well since we've strayed this far off the thread I'll just chime in =
a say how much I've always admired weirdo aeronautical designs. When my =
dear old Dad was station at Carswell AFB we lived in a housing =
development just across Lake Worth. I remember seeing the YB-49 taking =
off once - came right over our house.=20
Almost as thrilling as seeing the Muntz TV salesman bring one of his =
sets into our living room and then proceed to slap and kick the shit out =
of it while it played on merrily, Uncle Miltie smiling through the =
abuse.
Me and my brother George had never seen anything like that, not ever =
before. I don't think my Dad bought the Muntz though.
I always wanted a Dumont. It was in black and white, like the rest =
of the world, but had a bluish fluorescent collar around the picture =
tube which lit up while you watched Red Skelton being supremely unfunny =
(always broke up laughing at his own crap for one thing, unlike Spike =
Jones: the funnier he got the more disgusted he looked).
Far enough off the thread yet?
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "IgorLoving" <lovingigor@earthlink.net>
To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:41 AM
Subject: RE: Thunderbolt!!
> Blackhawk flew A thunderbolt in the later comics, he started with =
the old aircobra which he garnered in Poland durinf the blitz kreig, =
then it was the P-38 and after WWII there were the jets. All could land =
on a postage stamp. The band was made up of Olaf the Swede, Chop Chop =
the Chinese, Andre the Frenchman and a German and a Yougoslav???? nal =
Message-----
> From: telebob <telebob@sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: May 23, 2004 3:07 PM
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: RE: Trivia Thunderbolt!!
>=20
> John Huston in "Chinatown" pronounces Jake Gittes name as Mr. =
Ghitts
> consistently, though Nicholson corrects him and Huston's character =
ignores
> the corrections.
>=20
> Did I get it right Mr. BBBBBB?
>=20
> teleBubby
> -----Original Message-----
> From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
> [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Byron =
Black
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 4:35 PM
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Subject: Trivia Thunderbolt!!
>=20
>=20
> TRIVIA ALARM! TRIVIA ALARM!
>=20
> Ghetts? What mean star pronounces another actor's name that way,
> mispronouncing it on purpose rather, over and over, even though =
the other
> fellow patiently tells him how to pronounce it? Great movie too!
>=20
> (Got to be somebody here who'll get it)
>=20
> BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Eisenstadt
> To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:45 PM
> Subject: ghetts?
>=20
>=20
> that is an ugly word because it sounds so ugly
> were one to say it. have you ever uttered it,
> Frances? Try it, you won't like it.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My understanding is that it was =
Pentagon politics=20
that doomed the YB-49, John Northrop's 'pure-wing' dream that was so far =
ahead=20
of its time. The B-36 was a cobbled-together hodge-podge that my Dad =
(SAC Major)=20
said was terrificaly unreliable, particularly in the piston-engine =
section (six=20
piston radials, two little jet pods on the end of the non-swept-back =
wings, if=20
you recall). I remember seeing them when we lived at Limestone/Loring =
AFB up at=20
the tip of Maine, in 1952.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The B-52 has exceeded all expectations =
and=20
continues to perform to this day, but I have read that it is for all its =
bulk a=20
quite uncomfortable and user-unfriendly plane for the crew to fly in (in =
spite=20
of the $400 toilet seats -- remember that brouhaha?). Few creature =
comforts for=20
those 13-hour flights to nowhere, circling North America and watching =
for the=20
Russkies.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:003b01c448af$e7107a70$3c719eca@byron" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then don't forget the B-47 'Stratojet' =
(sounds like=20
some bulbous beast from GM), which came between the B-36 and the B-52. =
Little=20
itsy-bitsy landing gear assemblies at the end of the wingtips.=20
Weird.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Quote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P>B-47 research and development began in 1945 with the first prototype =
flight=20
in December 1947. The Air Force wanted a high-altitude, medium-range, =
subsonic=20
bomber. At that time, four contractors were developing bombers. Two =
designs were=20
conventional bombers in the mold of the B-29, while the more radical =
designs=20
were the Northrop flying wing and the Boeing swept wing jet. In this era =
before=20
the SAM, fighter aircraft were considered the main threat to bombers. =
World War=20
II had shown that stripped down B-29's with near-fighter speed and a =
higher=20
altitude ceiling could only be successfully intercepted from the rear.=20
<P>With the speed and maneuverability of the fighters of the late =
forties,=20
Boeing's swept-wing XB-47 won the bomber competition and swiftly =
transformed the=20
XB-46 and the XB-48 into aviation footnotes. Six Allison J35-2 turbojet =
engines=20
slung in pods beneath the swept-back wings gave the prototype Stratojet =
nimble=20
performance, and helped to validate a design concept still widely used =
today.=20
Although uprated J47-GE-3s were soon substituted, the B-47 also carried=20
mountings for 18 solid-fuel booster rockets in the aft fuselage to =
shorten the=20
takeoff roll. Flight testing continued through 1951, and B-47's began =
entering=20
the inventory in 1952. ICBMs and SLBMs did not yet exist, and the =
penetrating=20
bomber was the only nuclear strike vehicle available. A total of 2,039 =
B-47's=20
were funded and built in a serial production that lasted until 1956.=20
<P>The B-47 was the first pure jet strategic bomber whose many unique =
features=20
included six jet engines; a two-engine, pylon-mounted pod under each =
wing near=20
the fuselage; and a single-engine pod further outboard. The wings were =
attached=20
high on the fuselage and swept 35. The design incorporated a =
revolutionary=20
bicycle-type, retractable main landing gear with single, two-wheel =
struts on the=20
forward and aft fuselage. Outrigger wheels added lateral stability and =
retracted=20
into the two-engine pod cowling. The B-47 was 107 feet long, 28 feet =
high at the=20
tail, and had a wing span of 116 feet. The crew consisted of a pilot, =
copilot,=20
and bombardier. With a maximum gross weight of about 204,000 pounds, it =
used=20
rocket assist on takeoff. A tail chute was used to slow down the =
aircraft during=20
landings.=20
<P>Although heavier than the heaviest World War II bomber, the B-47 was =
designed=20
to be a medium-range penetrator with approximately a 3,500-nm range. =
This was=20
not a problem in the early 1950's since forward basing was available in =
the=20
United Kingdom, Spain, Morocco, Guam, and Alaska. In addition, the B-47 =
was=20
equipped with an air refueling capability and, on several occasions, =
36-hour=20
missions were flown. Thus, when it initially entered the inventory, its =
range=20
was sufficient.=20
<P>The aircraft's payload capacity was limited to 20,000 pounds =
internally.=20
Since nuclear weapons were large in the early 1950's, the bomb bay was =
limited=20
to one or two of high yield. But this lack of payload capacity was =
compensated=20
for by the large numbers of B-47's that were purchased (at a cost of =
less than=20
$2 million per airplane) which resulted in an acceptable overall weapon =
delivery=20
capacity. The B-47 was also capable of carrying 13 500-pound or 8 =
1,000-pound=20
conventional bombs.52 Although no B-47 squadron was ever equipped with =
any type=20
of missile, the B-47 was used on several occasions as a test aircraft =
for=20
missile launches. The biggest aid to the B-47 payload was nuclear weapon =
technology which developed smaller weapons.=20
<P>Serial production made incorporating changes easier; the most =
numerous models=20
were the B and E series. There were many production improvements made to =
include=20
more powerful engines with water injection, the addition of tail guns, =
ejection=20
seats, increased maximum gross weight, and bomb bay modifications for =
new=20
weapons technology. Once deployed, modifications were numerous. The most =
significant was the structural revision to convert the B-47 from a high =
to a low=20
altitude penetrator due to the development of Soviet SAMs in the mid =
1950's. In=20
May 1960, Gary Powers' U-2 was shot down by a Soviet SAM, vividly =
demonstrating=20
Soviet high altitude defense capabilities.=20
<P>Besides structural modifications, ECM and other avionics were =
updated. Some=20
B-47's were modified into reconnaissance and other specialized aircraft. =
Since=20
space was a limitation, most aircraft modified for reconnaissance and =
special=20
missions were not capable of carrying bombs. However, the RB-47B could =
be=20
converted back to a bomber. The B-47 had the capability to be modified =
but was=20
restricted by space limitations.=20
<P>By 1956, B-47 deployment reached its peak with over 1,300 assigned to =
SAC. In=20
addition about 250 RB-47s were in SAC at that time. Subsequently, phase =
out of=20
the B-47 took place in the 1960s. In 1960 there were still almost 1,100 =
B-47s.=20
This dropped to about 400 in 1964 and in 1966 the last B-47 had been =
phased out=20
though a few RB-47s were retained until 1967. The phase out of the B-47 =
medium=20
bomber coincided with the rapid build up of ICBM and SLBM deployment by =
the US.=20
<P>The B-47's were phased out in the early 1960's with the last ones =
leaving the=20
inventory by the end of 1965. The B-47 had shown flexibility in adapting =
to a=20
low level mission profile that was required by the introduction of SAMs. =
But=20
modifications to a large fleet (especially structural modifications) =
cost vast=20
sums of money. Moreover, forward basing of strategic nuclear forces was =
becoming=20
unpopular with our allies, and there was not enough tanker support to =
make up=20
the range difference for CONUS basing of all the B-47's. The B-58, =
planned as a=20
replacement for the B-47, started entering the inventory in 1960. Also, =
the=20
B-52, designed as an outgrowth of the B-47, was proving to be a very =
capable=20
strategic bomber. Thus, the combination of mission profile changes, =
which=20
limited B-47's usefulness and the emergence of a replacement =
medium-range bomber=20
and a truly long-range strategic bomber, led to the retirement of the =
B-47's=20
after 14 years of service.=20
<P>In summary, the B-47 was a technological innovation in bomber =
aircraft design=20
with swept wings, jet engines, the ability to be air refueled, and an=20
operational envelope equal to the fighter aircraft of the early 1950's. =
The=20
Stratojet was also one of the more beautiful airplanes to grace =
America's skies.=20
However, it was a medium-range bomber that had limitations on space, =
payload,=20
and range. When deployed, the B-47 was adequate to perform its designed =
mission.=20
While it was able to adapt to changes in the threat at significant cost, =
it was=20
not able to keep up with a heightened threat and greater range =
requirements,=20
thus making other available aircraft that did the job better more =
viable.=20
</P></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Ah for those days of, er, hmm, maybe not so either, heh =
heh.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmesmo@gilanet.com href=3D"mailto:mesmo@gilanet.com">Gerry =
Storm</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 02, 2004 =
8:06=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Weird War =
Craft</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>When I was in pre-lang training at Kelly AFB our building was=20
occasionally shaken by a great monster warming up on a runway about =
1/2 mile=20
away. It was the C-99, cargo version of the B-36. At the time it was =
the=20
largest aircraft ever built and I believe still the largest motor =
driven=20
aircraft ever. Only saw it take off once, usually they just ran it =
down the=20
runway a ways. It was said that they could load an entire brigade (or=20
whatever) on this monster, men, equipment and all, but finding an =
landing=20
strip large enough to accomodate it was not easy, nor was the return =
trip=20
flying it empty.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A=20
=
href=3D"http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Consolidated-Vultee%20C=
-99">http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Consolidated-Vultee%20C-99=
</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ah yes, the days of the piston engined aircraft, with the B-36 =
reigning=20
supreme--until the B-52 (one of the great triumphs of American =
techology) came=20
along and put it into mothballs. Those of us born and raised in Texas =
were=20
priviledged to see them in our skies and hear their mighty roars and =
dream=20
that one day we would fly or at least ride in one...alas, I spent most =
of my=20
flying days in one not so grand, the C-119, better known as the =
"pregnant=20
guppie".</DIV>
<DIV>G</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dblacky@cbn.net.id href=3D"mailto:blacky@cbn.net.id">Byron =
Black</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 02, =
2004 6:34=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Weird War =
Craft</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well since we've strayed this far =
off the=20
thread I'll just chime in a say how much I've always admired weirdo=20
aeronautical designs. When my dear old Dad was station at Carswell =
AFB we=20
lived in a housing development just across Lake Worth. I remember =
seeing the=20
YB-49 taking off once - came right over our house. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Almost as thrilling as seeing the =
Muntz TV=20
salesman bring one of his sets into our living room and then proceed =
to slap=20
and kick the shit out of it while it played on merrily, Uncle Miltie =
smiling=20
through the abuse.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Me and my brother George had never =
seen=20
anything like that, not ever before. I don't think my Dad bought the =
Muntz=20
though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I always wanted a Dumont. It was in =
black and=20
white, like the rest of the world, but had a bluish fluorescent =
collar=20
around the picture tube which lit up while you watched Red Skelton =
being=20
supremely unfunny (always broke up laughing at his own crap for one =
thing,=20
unlike Spike Jones: the funnier he got the more disgusted he=20
looked).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Far enough off the thread =
yet?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- =
</FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "IgorLoving" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:lovingigor@earthlink.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>lovingigor@earthlink.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:41=20
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: RE: =
Thunderbolt!!</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> Blackhawk flew A thunderbolt in the later comics, he =
started=20
with the old aircobra which he garnered in Poland durinf the blitz =
kreig,=20
then it was the P-38 and after WWII there were the jets. All could =
land on a=20
postage stamp. The band was made up of Olaf the Swede, Chop Chop the =
Chinese, Andre the Frenchman and a German and a Yougoslav???? =
nal=20
Message-----<BR>> From: telebob <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:telebob@sbcglobal.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>telebob@sbcglobal.net</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>><BR>>=20
Sent: May 23, 2004 3:07 PM<BR>> To: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> Subject: RE: Trivia Thunderbolt!!<BR>> <BR>> =
John Huston=20
in "Chinatown" pronounces Jake Gittes name as Mr. =
Ghitts<BR>>=20
consistently, though Nicholson corrects him and Huston's character=20
ignores<BR>> the corrections.<BR>> <BR>> Did I get it right =
Mr.=20
BBBBBB?<BR>> <BR>> teleBubby<BR>> -----Original=20
Message-----<BR>> From: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On =
Behalf Of Byron=20
Black<BR>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 4:35 PM<BR>> =
To:=20
</FONT><A href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> Subject: Trivia Thunderbolt!!<BR>> <BR>> =
<BR>>=20
TRIVIA ALARM! TRIVIA ALARM!<BR>> <BR>> Ghetts? =
What mean=20
star pronounces another actor's name that way,<BR>> =
mispronouncing it on=20
purpose rather, over and over, even though the other<BR>> fellow=20
patiently tells him how to pronounce it? Great movie too!<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
(Got to be somebody here who'll get it)<BR>> <BR>> =
=20
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB<BR>> ----- Original =
Message=20
-----<BR>> From: Michael Eisenstadt<BR>>=20
To: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:45 =
PM<BR>>=20
Subject: ghetts?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>=20
that is an ugly word because it sounds so =
ugly<BR>>=20
were one to say it. have you ever uttered =
it,<BR>>=20
Frances? Try it, you won't like it.<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
Mike<BR>> <BR>>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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