stop me before I rant again
Jon Ford
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Mon Sep 6 16:34:25 2004
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<P><BR><BR></P>Gerry- hey, for once I agree with you, although the idea of secular governments seems to be less popular these days, particularly in the Muslim world.</DIV>
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<DIV class=RTE>Jon</DIV>
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<P>>From: "Gerry Storm" <mesmo@gilanet.com> </P>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
<DIV></DIV>>To: <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: stop me before I rant again
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 14:22:29 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mike,
<DIV></DIV>>I would like to see Sharon and his policies fail and be replaced by a more
<DIV></DIV>>moderate stance. I would like to see Perle, Wolife, Feith,et al fail and
<DIV></DIV>>spend the rest of their lives in Abu Ghraib or San Quentin. I would like to
<DIV></DIV>>see all governments as secular institutions. I would like a break in the
<DIV></DIV>>daily news from the constant fights in Israel.
<DIV></DIV>>G
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Michael Eisenstadt" <michaele@HotPOP.com>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <mesmo@gilanet.com>; <austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:42 PM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: stop me before I rant again
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > Gerry,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > I dont know how much you want to know about
<DIV></DIV>> > Israel considering your heritage ;-) but I thought
<DIV></DIV>> > I'd bring to your attention a book I just finished
<DIV></DIV>> > reading, Real Jews by Noah Efron, an Israeli
<DIV></DIV>> > professor. (you might ask for it through Interlibrary
<DIV></DIV>> > Loan at your local public library).
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > It is about the Haredim, the super orthodox,
<DIV></DIV>> > not to be confused with religious West Bank
<DIV></DIV>> > settlers, these are the old timey jews in black
<DIV></DIV>> > studying the bible being their main occupation.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > It is a more or less sympathetic look at them,
<DIV></DIV>> > written primarily to inform secular Israelis who
<DIV></DIV>> > resent the Haredim as corrupt free-loaders.
<DIV></DIV>> > According to Efron, the Haredim are about
<DIV></DIV>> > 10% of the population and as far as one can
<DIV></DIV>> > tell, this percentage is not changing very much
<DIV></DIV>> > despite the large families they have. Apparently
<DIV></DIV>> > a lot of their children abandon the faith and
<DIV></DIV>> > become secular. The reason they have such
<DIV></DIV>> > political clout is, in part, because they practice
<DIV></DIV>> > massive fraud in elections with faked IDs,
<DIV></DIV>> > multiple voting, and voting the cemeteries.
<DIV></DIV>> > At recent elections, secular poll-watchers were
<DIV></DIV>> > in place at Haredim precincts but it turned out
<DIV></DIV>> > to be very hard to closely surveille the IDs of
<DIV></DIV>> > the voters as regards their real identity.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > But it is not as you say. Israel, surprisingly, at
<DIV></DIV>> > this moment is having an economic boom with
<DIV></DIV>> > a strong growth rate.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > As best I can tell from reading Ha'aretz and
<DIV></DIV>> > the Jerusalem Post, the Israel I defend is NOT
<DIV></DIV>> > on the ropes. If anything their internal strife that
<DIV></DIV>> > you speak of seems far less than that here in
<DIV></DIV>> > the US. Why do I get the sense that it would
<DIV></DIV>> > delight you if they WERE in internal strife?
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Could it just be that you got an attitude towards
<DIV></DIV>> > these folks? I hope not.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Nice though that you remember the Israel of
<DIV></DIV>> > the 50s which was a far less corrupt society
<DIV></DIV>> > than it is now (the way it changed was explained
<DIV></DIV>> > to me by an Israeli math teacher/rabbi on a
<DIV></DIV>> > Pan Am flight from NYC to Houston in 1979).
<DIV></DIV>> > It's a complicated country.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Mike
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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