[AGL] X-box? Soap box

[Wayne Johnson]

Well, "self esteem" is another good idea that has just been used in a 
fornicating kind of way to relieve lazy people from their sense of 
responsibility.  I disagree with any program or "punishment" which 
de-humanizes or humiliates students.  But that sort of thing can be 
carefully defined and limited.

On the other hand, the "mission" of schools is to "teach" not serve as 
either juvenile hall, prison, psychiatric ward or day-care center for kids 
who want to remain assholes all their lives.  Anyone who willfully...or 
continously...disrupts a class and causes the other 20 to 25 to 30 students 
to lose whatever precious little concentration they have....must go.  Too 
f*****g bad if he/she going to lose "self esteem" if what we have in that 
case is either un-controlled hooliganism or organic failure or parents who 
have lost interest in being parents.  Not the school's job to be parent, cop 
or psychiatrist.  This blurring of responsibility...regardless of the 
Ideology which encouraged it...liberal or conservative or flying pizza 
monster...must be stopped.  Mission = Teach/Educate....not train to be a 
professional athlete or the next "belly button blond singer" or drug dealer 
or "games boy pro".

Other "developed countries" manage to actually teach mathematics, science, 
languages, etc. without diminishing the "tender pysches" of their brighter 
students.  Of course, some of them test you at age 7 or 11 and if you screw 
up....off you go to Trade School.  Does unfairness occur?  Without a doubt. 
But the primary "mission" of the school systems is relieved of the stress of 
a lot of students carrying out aggressive fantasies by shooting or stabbing 
or raping the teachers or engaging in disruptive classroom behaviour. 
Classrooms MUST belong to the instructor not some drug-addled, sociopathic 
kid from whatever income/status/class/home he/she happens to be stuck with. 
Is this going to create some unfairness? Sure as shit, but the "overall 
quality" will rise and American students may not have spend their adult 
lives looking over their should to see if some brighter, better educated, 
smarter, faster 
Korean/Japanese/Indonesian/Indian/Korean/Latvian/Ukrainian/Iranian/Iraqi/Egyptian/Lebanese/Israeli/German/
Bulgarian/Kenya/South African/Bolivian/Brazilian/et al person is going to be 
better qualified...and cheaper.

wgJ

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harry Edwards" <laughingwolf at ev1.net>
To: "survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the 60s" 
<austin-ghetto-list at pairlist.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AGL] X-box? Soap box


> apologies, Frances. I didn't know you'd taught. Sadly today, learning 
> often takes second place to maintaining a student's "self-esteem."      td
>
> On Nov 23, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Frances Morey wrote:
>
>> I taught for seven years, Harry. How many years did you teach? I raised 
>> two healthy and well adjusted sons. How many sons have you raised. My 
>> classrooms were always busy and hard at work learning. I tolerated no bad 
>> behavior and I could spot it and nip it in the bud when there was any 
>> acting out or tormenting one another.
>> I'm not disagreeing with you about the need fundamental change, yes, we 
>> do need that and the young people need it, too.
>> Frances
>>
>> Harry Edwards <laughingwolf at ev1.net> wrote:
>>> oops, interesting slip. I meant to say "in this country." td
>>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2005, at 4:49 PM, Harry Edwards wrote:
>>>
>>> > spoken like one who has never taught before. Teaching is the most
>>> > honorable and the most thankless profession there is in this
>>> company .
>>> > It is also one of the most difficult. I know there were times when I
>>> > was bored silly in the classrooms of excellent teachers. Not the
>>> > teachers' faults. We need fundamental change in this society.
>>> > twisty
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 23, 2005, at 4:39 PM, Frances Morey wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "...lot of students bored silly by classroom instruction...," Jon
>>> >> wrote.
>>> >>
>>> >> That is such a sad posture for someone whose career has been spent
>>> >> teaching. If the students are bored it's because their teacher has
>>> >> neglected to create a schedule of learning that challenges
>>> >> their individual young minds. If learning isn't fun, the teacher
>>> has
>>> >> been reduced to an attendance taking roboton. Someone once noted
>>> that
>>> >> if a young person has one admirable teacher out of eight, their
>>> >> attitudes towards learning may be salvaged.
>>> >>
>>> >> There is a presumption of kids being bored, and a
>>> >> presumptuousness, because the kids have trained themselves to act
>>> >> like they know-it-all and have nothing left to learn.
>>> >> They are only in the classroom to ogle the opposite sex (or the
>>> same
>>> >> sex) and see how little effort they can put-in to pass from one
>>> grade
>>> >> to the next, like little spoiled (negle cted?) kid-brats. They are
>>> >> there because the law says that they must be, and the teachers are
>>> >> there to take home a paycheck, being reduced to prison guards.
>>> >>
>>> >> Video games are a great babysitter. With enough time devoted
>>> >> to playing them they often become an obsession, eating up scads of
>>> >> precious time to the detriment of all other aspects of the
>>> >> adolescence's development. Such people will become parents who wish
>>> >> as little involvement with children as possible, such
>>> people probably
>>> >> learned it from their own parents who might have treated them as
>>> >> though they were a nuisance and a burden. Lots of prof's kids
>>> >> suffered from this.
>>> >>
>>> >> Nothing personal, Jon. This is just my educational philosophy. It
>>> is
>>> >> the teacher's job to make it exciting, so the students don't turn
>>> out
>>> >> to be intelligent design creationists, for Christ's sakes, or
>>> >> automaton know-nothings who w ouldn't question authority if it bit
>>> >> them on the butt.
>>> >>
>>> >> Happy Thanksgiving, y'all,
>>> >> Frances
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Wayne Johnson wrote:
>>> >>> Naturally, Jon manages to miss the point even while he makes his
>>> >>> point.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Of course, "education" is boring, no "Spam, Blat" No bigggg boobs,
>>> >>> nothing
>>> >>> to Kill" Can't expect American kids to keep on their determined
>>> >>> Entertainment first, Education last approach to life if they are
>>> >>> required
>>> >>> "think" instead of "react". Action now, rhetoric...critical
>>> >>> thinking...language usage...later...if at all. Learn everything
>>> >>> about the
>>> >>> world by seeing it on a 6x6 box as determined by Japanese
>>> >>> programmers. So
>>> >>> much easier than "listening". Who needs dialectic or literacy or
>>> >>> theory of
>>> >>> numbers or phenomenology when one can spend ho urs fantasizing
>>> >>> murder and
>>> >>> rape? Why bother with dissection when one can simulate NASCAR? Why
>>> >>> bother
>>> >>> with learning "complicated" things like phy sics, chemistry or
>>> >>> ....gasp...biology, when one can just play with a "black box" or
>>> >>> believe in
>>> >>> one?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "Ooooh, Mommy. That mean old scientist makes my brain hurt!"
>>> >>> "Don't worry, Muffy, we will be safely back in Kansas tomorrow."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But then such subtleties bypass some people who must constantly
>>> tell
>>> >>> themselves (and others) that "they" are the "most hip" while
>>> others
>>> >>> cocoon
>>> >>> themselves in what some might call "elitist literary snobbery".
>>> >>> Interesting
>>> >>> concatentation. Gee, if only the two could be mixed.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "Fight the Texas War of Revolution! On the Mexican Side! At home!
>>> >>> With
>>> >>> Game Person X"
>>> >>> "Thrill to the atrocities of the Rape of Nanking!" Who? Nan King?
>>> Oh,
>>> >>> cool, dude."
>>> >>> "Le arn how Real Christians fight Apostasy, play "Inquisition!"
>>> >>> "Play the New Tunnel Rat!"
>>> >>> "Win points on Enol a Gay over the Medici."
>>> >>> "Vanquish the Green Knight with Madonna!"
>>> >>> "Pokemon vs Shakespeare".
>>> >>>
>>> >>> the mind boggles....or "bobbles" for some.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> wgJ
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Jon Ford"
>>> >>> To:
>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 11:51 AM
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AGL] X-box?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Mike, your quip is right on the money! Unlike Harry Potter films
>>> >>> and
>>> >>> > high school classes, the new media are interactive, leaving a
>>> lot
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> > students bored silly by classroom instruction. A book on video
>>> >>> games
>>> >>> & gt; people should read, which gives us some insights into
>>> learning and
>>> >>> gaming
>>> >>> > is James Gee's
>>> >>> > "What Video Games Have to Teach Us about Learning and Literacy"
>>> >>> (Palgrave
>>> >>> > MacMillan).
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > Talk about decorticating the brain.>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Mike
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > ----- Original Message ---- - From: "Wayne Johnson"
>>> >>> > To: "survivors' reminiscences about Austin Ghetto Daze in the
>>> 60s"
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:33 AM
>>> >>> > Subject: Re: [AGL] X-box?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Honor and I talked with a local teacher whilst standing in line
>>> >>> the other
>>> >>> > night for Harry Potter. Part of this (sad) conversation was the
>>> >> ;> > revelation that his (high school level) kids....can not take
>>> >>> notes, can
>>> >>> > not follow an "oral" argument and can only take notes if they
>>> are
>>> >>> > "bulletized" a la Power Point. He assigns this horrid situation
>>> to
>>> >>> a
>>> >>> > (young) lifetime of ......game playing.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
>
>