[Jacob-list] PRIMITIVE TRAITS

[Dr. David R. Lincicome]

1752 hrs/Friday 29 June 2001

Dear Ms. Bennett,

The moral of your story is simple:  Jacobs should not be shown and judged
according to today's standards in the show ring.  I have set down my thoughts on
this and probably in the next issue of the Journal of the Jacob Sheep
Conservancy you may find my paper on this.

If we are to preserve and conserve the 'primitive' Jacob in this country then we
must not subject the breed to the whims, prejudices, aesthetic sense of
commercial judges in the competitive show ring.

David Richard Lincicome, Ph.D.,PAS, DACAP
Debbie Bennett wrote:

> I'd like to add a couple of items to the list:
> I haven't noticed the loin being shorter, the Jacobs I have that I
> consider "primitive" look deer-like; thin legs, but often long, thin
> bodied. The thing that I see that I don't think is  primitive is a heavy
> chest.
> Kemp in the wool at birth, that sheds out at about three months of age.
> Wool that  roos - that is, if I don't shear early enough, they get a
> break in their wool and start to shed.
> Head held erect.
> To be considered primitive I don't think they need to have all of these
> traits, but most of them.
>
> I just came back from a large show and none of the Jacobs that I would
> consider primitive looking even came close to placing. The judge
> considered them "too small to be able to evaluate at this time". Judges
> are choosing larger over primitive. Last year, I had a judge tell me my
> rams were too thin (read deer-like). In response to this attitude, my
> son bought the largest breeding ewe he could find. My concern is that
> future generations will choose bigger and sometime in the future we will
> lose the primitive type altogether.
>
> Debbie Bennett
> Feral Fibre
>
> On Tuesday, June 26, 2001, at 03:52 PM, Susan L. Nielsen wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 Jacobflock at aol.com wrote:
> > ...
> >> conservation efforts but was stumped when thinking of a definition of
> >> 'primitive'.
> >
> > Hi, Fred --
> >
> > You may remember (or may not, I suppose, but _I_ do!) a conversation
> > at the JSBA meeting, in which you kind of put me right on the spot when
> > I used the word "primitive" to describe one of my ewes in particular.
> > I blithely said that I think of her as the more primitive of my
> > bunch. "What do you mean by "primitive?" you asked me back.
> >
> > Well, shoot. I thought I knew what I meant until then! So I babbled
> > on for a few minutes, trying to save my sense of self assurance. ;-)
> > But when I got back home, I asked for opinions on that from several
> > sources I thought might have better organized thoughts than I. Based
> > on some emails, and on my own understanding (and with a particular
> > thank-you to Ingrid Painter for this), let me offer, this list for
> > further discussion:
> >
> > 1. Primitive breeds shed their belly wool to the skin in summer.
> >
> > 2. Primitive breeds are often cow-hocked, and have slender (skinny!)
> > legs.
> >
> > 3. The loin is shorter and smaller than in improved breeds, because:
> >
> > 4. the rump is "set down" somewhat, meaning the anus and vulva are
> > not level with the backbone, resulting in
> >
> > 5. easier births; the lamb does not have to go upward to get out,
> > but can fall toward the exit.
> >
> > 6. Body fat is stored internally, around the kidneys, rather than
> > under the skin.
> >
> > 7. Primitives generally breed within a seasonal window.
> >
> > 8. Fleeces of primitive breeds are usually double-coated; Jacobs are
> > an exception to this example; primitive fleeces usually weigh less than
> > 4 pounds annually.
> >
> > 9. Primitives are smaller sheep than improved breeds; ewes will
> > usually not weigh above 120 pounds.
> >
> > 10. Primitives are thrifty eaters, and will be happy, and healthy,
> > browsing a rougher forage than improved breeds.
> >
> > I don't know if this reflects other people's understanding of
> > "primitive type," but the list is helping me look at sheep with an
> > eye to what I want.
> >
> > Now just don't ask me too closely what I think I want! ;-)
> >
> > Susan
> > --
> > Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops                     |"...Gently down the
> > Beavercreek, OR, USA -- snielsen at orednet.org          |stream..." -- Anon.
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Purveyors of fine honey, Jacob Sheep, Ashford spinning products
> >                       and Interweave books
> >
> >
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> >
>
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