From icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 1 00:46:05 2001 From: icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net (cindy gebhart) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] TAKE ME OFF YOUR EMAIL LIST/ CHATS Message-ID: <381056870.983425565878.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> DEAR JACOB-LIST PEOPLE: PLEEEAAAASSSSSSEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! TAKE MY EMAIL ADDRESS OFF YOUR LIST AND THE OTHER STUFF. YOUR STUFF IS LOADING MY COMPUTER TOOOOOOOOO MUUUUCHHH!!!!! THANK YOU. BUT I DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE ANYMORE INFORMATION FROM YOU. CINDY GEBHART icsheep2@bellatlantic.net From icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 1 00:46:11 2001 From: icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net (cindy gebhart) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] TAKE ME OFF YOUR EMAIL LIST/ CHATS Message-ID: <379945823.983425571812.JavaMail.root@web421-wrb> DEAR JACOB-LIST PEOPLE: PLEEEAAAASSSSSSEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! TAKE MY EMAIL ADDRESS OFF YOUR LIST AND THE OTHER STUFF. YOUR STUFF IS LOADING MY COMPUTER TOOOOOOOOO MUUUUCHHH!!!!! THANK YOU. BUT I DON'T WANT TO RECEIVE ANYMORE INFORMATION FROM YOU. CINDY GEBHART icsheep2@bellatlantic.net From Jacobflock at aol.com Thu Mar 1 08:34:22 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] New Lambs Message-ID: <5c.7d9bc0d.27cfa9de@aol.com> Fred Horak here. Excitement and rambling ??? The wonder at new life?? It's God's promise that life will go on. Be excited and ramble. From wolfpen at rabun.net Thu Mar 1 08:51:28 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] New Lambs In-Reply-To: <20010301031252.13849.qmail@web705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200103011359.IAA07234@mail> Abigail, I never will tire of hearing Jacob Sheep lambing stories! It is my favorite time of year. Each ewe is a wonderful mother, but each has her own personal mothering style that is fun to watch. I usually manage to observe all the births and watching a minutes old lamb get up and nurse always amazes me. Glad you got to be there for Sarah's lambs - Congratulations on your new babies! Linda On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:12:52 -0800 (PST), Abigail Brown wrote: >Hello All, > >Late this afternoon our lambing began. >I have been on vacation this week so have been able to >be at home anticipating their arrival. > >I don't know which is more fun; waiting and watching, >waiting and watching, waiting and watching all day >long, or coming home from work and finding two >wonderful lambs!!! > >Either way, I kept watching Sarah all day long, >knowing that her time was very soon. When I hayed the >girls this morning she came over and nibbled but was >mostly disinterested, standing in one spot, looking >miserable. When I went out to grain them at 5:30 she >was laying down and didn't bother to get up for her >grain (this is their favorite part of the day). >After I gave everyone else their grain, I set a pan in >front of her where she lay and gave her the grain. >Bless her heart, she just lay their and ate the grain. >Before she got up she started passing water bags. This >was my first time since we have had our jacobs that I >got to watch both lambs being born. It was so >exciting. It was real hard for me to keep my hands off >and let her clean them herself. > >First to come was a wonderfully marked ewe, and then a >slightly larger ram. I know he will have nice horns, >the buds were large in circumference. > >One down,three to go. This will be our first year >having four ewe lambing. > >Sorry for rambling, could you tell I am excited? > >Abigail Brown >Shiloh Farms >Petersburg, IN > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010301/72ede87a/attachment.html From icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 1 10:37:02 2001 From: icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net (cindy gebhart) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] unscribtion-----NOW!!!! Message-ID: <382840509.983461022347.JavaMail.root@web623-wrb.mail.com> TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR E-MAILING LIST. I DO NOT WANT THE STUFF ANYMORE. SO TAKE ME OFF NOW!!! CINDY GEBHART From icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 1 10:40:17 2001 From: icsheep2 at bellatlantic.net (cindy gebhart) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] take my name off your list NOW!!! Message-ID: <383756601.983461218541.JavaMail.root@web625-wrb.mail.com> From williams at jacobsheep.com Thu Mar 1 22:41:05 2001 From: williams at jacobsheep.com (Cathie and Mark Williams) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] take my name off your list NOW!!! References: <001301c0a26f$4f11a580$6a1f3fd1@tiarblac> Message-ID: <010201c0a2cd$f9ef9f80$a88b520c@williams> Everybody should have received a membership reminder message this morning. That message contains the email address you subscribed with and your password. To change your membership settings, go to > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list (that link is at the bottom of every Jacob-list message). Enter your email address in the box at the bottom of that page, then click the Edit Options button. You'll go to another page where you can change all your subscription options. - Mark Williams Swallow Lane Farm & Fiberworks, where the earth has finally stopped shaking and the lambs are still coming. See our babies at http://www.jacobsheep.com/lambs.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Black, Tiar and Jason" To: "Cathie and Mark Williams" Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:47 AM Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] take my name off your list NOW!!! > I am sure you have probably already seen this but this is the 4th one since > last night! I guess she just has nothing better to do? At any rate maybe we > could post something for everyone on how to unsubscribe. I would do it but I > am not exactly sure what the proceedure is. I can't believe how demanding > she is! Thanks and sorry for the interuption. Have a good day. > Tiar > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cindy gebhart" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 7:40 AM > Subject: [Jacob-list] take my name off your list NOW!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Jacob-list mailing list > > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > > > From pavel314 at home.com Fri Mar 2 08:12:21 2001 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page Message-ID: <3A9F9C34.7A4195B6@home.com> Thanks to all the help from folks on these lists, Erin survived her bout with lambing ketosis. Several people expressed an interest in reading the play-by-play of our treatment, so I posted it to our website. If you're interested, click to http://members.home.net/rbfarm/ and follow the ketosis link in the first paragraph. Feel free to copy, bookmark, email, whatever, if you think it might be helpful to someone some day. Paul Intihar Rainbow Farm Joppa, Maryland From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 2 09:03:06 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:38 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] New Lambs References: <20010301031252.13849.qmail@web705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006401c0a321$82a0d300$8167e2d1@Melanie> If it doesn't excite and thrill you, even when you've got 40 ewes and been doing it 20+ years, then you shouldn't be doing it. My husband learned all his sheep skills from his cousin Neil, ten years his senior. Neil has now been a sheep farmer for 33 years in his own right, and 18 years before that growing up on his parents' farm. He STILL gets excited each Spring when the lambs start arriving. He says when he stops loving it, he'll stop doing it. I believe only old age will stop him. Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com For the believer no evidence is necessary for the nonbeliever none is possible ----- Original Message ----- From: Abigail Brown To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:12 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] New Lambs Hello All, Late this afternoon our lambing began. I have been on vacation this week so have been able to be at home anticipating their arrival. I don't know which is more fun; waiting and watching, waiting and watching, waiting and watching all day long, or coming home from work and finding two wonderful lambs!!! Either way, I kept watching Sarah all day long, knowing that her time was very soon. When I hayed the girls this morning she came over and nibbled but was mostly disinterested, standing in one spot, looking miserable. When I went out to grain them at 5:30 she was laying down and didn't bother to get up for her grain (this is their favorite part of the day). After I gave everyone else their grain, I set a pan in front of her where she lay and gave her the grain. Bless her heart, she just lay their and ate the grain. Before she got up she started passing water bags. This was my first time since we have had our jacobs that I got to watch both lambs being born. It was so exciting. It was real hard for me to keep my hands off and let her clean them herself. First to come was a wonderfully marked ewe, and then a slightly larger ram. I know he will have nice horns, the buds were large in circumference. One down,three to go. This will be our first year having four ewe lambing. Sorry for rambling, could you tell I am excited? Abigail Brown Shiloh Farms Petersburg, IN __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From hettick.1 at osu.edu Fri Mar 2 09:47:52 2001 From: hettick.1 at osu.edu (Heather Hettick) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] 2001 problems and two new lambs Message-ID: We had a rough start to 2001 as we lost our old ram Tobias. He was losing weight and coordination in his rear legs in December and seemed to be getting better with some extra food and reduced competition during feeding when he just died one night in January. The scrapie people examined his brain tissue and found no evidence of scrapie, so we think it was a combination of age and an incident in October where he knocked the top horn off our yearling ram. AT the time, Tobias didn't seem to have any injuries other than a sore shoulder from this and continued with his breeding job, but we think he may have had head or other injuries that took time to develop and his age didn't help either. He would have been nine in February. My husband was very disappointed because he really liked Tobias because he used to eat Canadian thistles as his preferred forage and, although difficult for me to catch or handle because of his strength, he was a very unaggressive ram with people as well as his ewes. We had a 2 horned Tobias son born February 21, but he probably won't be a keeper because he doesn't have a lot of color, and I kept his full brother, Brutus, last year to breed a couple of my ewes. His birth coat looks really nice but I'm planning to wether him anyway. I was about to give up on Brutus actually siring any lambs this year as they would have had to be born no later than this weekend and the three ewes I had with him didn't look ready, but it was hard to tell for sure because I hadn't shorn them yet because of my own hand injury and only just got the rams done last weekend. This morning at feeding time I was happily surprised to see a beautifully marked, (I like lots of color), still wet, ewe lamb with one of Brutus' ewes. Thistle is a first time mom with pretty long wool and I had to quickly shear her belly to help the lamb find milk and penned them in my extra stall to help them bond and not have to deal with some of the other more dominant or curious ewes for a while. I checked them before leaving for work though, and the lamb was happily nursing and Thistle seemed much more relaxed. I'll probably put them with the rest of the ewe flock when I check on them at lunch today. I have 5 more Jacob ewes left to lamb and one Tunis/Romney ewe lamb. Heather Hettick Moonstruck Jacob Sheep Creston, OH hettick.1@osu.edu From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 2 10:14:44 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page References: <3A9F9C34.7A4195B6@home.com> Message-ID: <002c01c0a32b$8523a1c0$8167e2d1@Melanie> Just ONE thought for the experts. When I was pregnant with my first child I was diagnosed with ketosis due to DEHYDRATION. Is there any similar connection with sheep? Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com For the believer no evidence is necessary for the nonbeliever none is possible ----- Original Message ----- From: Pavel To: Barnyard List ; FiberFlock List ; Jacob List ; Sheephusbandry List ; Sheep-L Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page Thanks to all the help from folks on these lists, Erin survived her bout with lambing ketosis. Several people expressed an interest in reading the play-by-play of our treatment, so I posted it to our website. If you're interested, click to http://members.home.net/rbfarm/ and follow the ketosis link in the first paragraph. Feel free to copy, bookmark, email, whatever, if you think it might be helpful to someone some day. Paul Intihar Rainbow Farm Joppa, Maryland _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Fri Mar 2 12:42:40 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs, etc. Message-ID: <002301c0a340$2eb4a900$b996453f@cyrix> Heather, Sorry to hear about Tobias. It doesn't seem like he could have been almost nine. I still have Craft's Bjorn who is about the same age. Do you have any other lilacs now? Congratulations on your new lambs. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010302/eefa05b7/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 2 18:59:53 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page Message-ID: <00fb01c0a374$e104dce0$0dc11cd0@oemcomputer> >Just ONE thought for the experts. When I was pregnant with my first child I >was diagnosed with ketosis due to DEHYDRATION. Is there any similar >connection with sheep?>Melanie Hope you'll accept a comment from a non-expert :-) Ketosis - in BOTH sheep and humans - occurs when there are not enough nutrients in the body to "feed it." The body, realizing its hungry, breaks down fat cells, and ketones are a poisonous by-product. Thus, when a diabetic does not have enough insulin to utilize the food he's eaten, his body may have the same reaction; also, someone seeking to lose too much weight too soon will have the same reaction. When ketones are formed, they are toxic in direct proportion to the "percentage" of ketones in the system. Normally, a well-hydrated system will try to pass the ketones in the urine. If you are dehydrated, you have a double-whammy: first, you urinate less frequently, and therefore ketones build up faster than you can get rid of them; and second, the percentage of ketones are higher, quicker, because there's less water in the system to "water them down." Having said that, I don't *know for sure* when it comes to sheep, but I'm willing to bet that it is. (See, I said I*wasn't* the expert :-)) thom From 2512 at nethawk.com Fri Mar 2 19:16:02 2001 From: 2512 at nethawk.com (2512@nethawk.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs etc. Message-ID: <006101c0a377$2637ca00$52e112d0@default> We had a set of twins born this year and since it is only our 2nd year of lambing we thought more ewes would of delivered by now as we put our breeding groups together all at once. Last year 3 ewes lambed and all with in 4days of one another. It has been 2 weeks since the first one lambed and no one else has yet. This year we have 9 total bred ewes. She must of cycled early I guess. Still have to do the middle of the night checks because we know it can't be too long. Do most people find there is a certain time span that their ewes lamb? Mary, speaking of Crafts Bjorn still being around we own his daughter, Spahr Farm Lucinda. She is about to deliver any time. She is a 5 year old 4 horn and she is probably the hardest one to catch of our flock. I think she is smarter. Nice to hear her pop is still around. Is he on your web page? I would like to print a picture and put it in our pedigree book. Bonnie Sutten Sheepy Thyme Farm Edmore, MI www.agdomain.com/web/sheepythyme/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010302/50a34bcf/attachment.html From pavel314 at home.com Fri Mar 2 22:27:34 2001 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page Message-ID: <3AA064A6.53FE51B3@home.com> By strange coincidence, I'm on the Atkins diet. This is where you eat mainly meat, cheese, and eggs, in order to induce ketosis and dissolve body fat. Contrary to anything I would have believed, I'm actually losing weight by eating prime rib and roast pheasant. I might keep dieting forever! Paul Intihar From creagchild at monad.net Sat Mar 3 07:42:28 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Dyed-in-the-Wool Message-ID: <009a01c0a3df$6894f180$706ee7ce@oemcomputer> Anyone know the origin of this phrase? thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010303/d7e172b9/attachment.htm From iseespots at hotmail.com Sat Mar 3 07:52:29 2001 From: iseespots at hotmail.com (Mary Hansson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Dyed-in-the-Wool Message-ID: Dyed in the wool comes from the dying of the wool in the "wool" phase rather than after it is spun into yarn. Who said it first---I have no clue! Mary Ellen >From: "Thomas Simmons" >To: "jacob-list" >Subject: [Jacob-list] Dyed-in-the-Wool >Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 07:42:28 -0500 > >Anyone know the origin of this phrase? > >thom _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 3 10:56:11 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page References: <00fb01c0a374$e104dce0$0dc11cd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <011d01c0a3fa$7915d7c0$4df9d1d8@Melanie> Well it makes sense! Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com For the believer no evidence is necessary for the nonbeliever none is possible ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Simmons To: Jacob List Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page >Just ONE thought for the experts. When I was pregnant with my first child I >was diagnosed with ketosis due to DEHYDRATION. Is there any similar >connection with sheep?>Melanie Hope you'll accept a comment from a non-expert :-) Ketosis - in BOTH sheep and humans - occurs when there are not enough nutrients in the body to "feed it." The body, realizing its hungry, breaks down fat cells, and ketones are a poisonous by-product. Thus, when a diabetic does not have enough insulin to utilize the food he's eaten, his body may have the same reaction; also, someone seeking to lose too much weight too soon will have the same reaction. When ketones are formed, they are toxic in direct proportion to the "percentage" of ketones in the system. Normally, a well-hydrated system will try to pass the ketones in the urine. If you are dehydrated, you have a double-whammy: first, you urinate less frequently, and therefore ketones build up faster than you can get rid of them; and second, the percentage of ketones are higher, quicker, because there's less water in the system to "water them down." Having said that, I don't *know for sure* when it comes to sheep, but I'm willing to bet that it is. (See, I said I*wasn't* the expert :-)) thom _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 3 10:54:26 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs etc. In-Reply-To: <006101c0a377$2637ca00$52e112d0@default> Message-ID: <200103031602.LAA28216@mail> Hi Bonnie Craft's Bjorn is pictured at http://www.patchworkfibers.com/spahr.html I'll just add it again that I'll be glad to post pictures for anyone that would like to share them with the list. Sheep for sale are also fine. I started doing these simple webpages for myself and others last year. I've enjoyed doing it and it has given me a chance to "see" other flocks. I also have a Bjorn daughter. She is also hard to catch but very easy to handle once caught. She just presented us with a beautiful pair of twins (ram/ewe). Lambing count as of this morning is 4 ewes and 3 rams. I'm extremely pleased with them. They have all been up nursing within minutes and bouncing around shortly thereafter. So far, fleeces look great and all the ewes have really good markings. Plus this is four times as many ewes as we got last year - so I'm ecstatic over that fact alone!! Linda On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:16:02 -0500, wrote: > We had a set of twins born this year and since it is only our 2nd year of lambing we >thought more ewes would of delivered by now as we put our breeding groups together all at >once. Last year 3 ewes lambed and all with in 4days of one another. It has been 2 weeks >since the first one lambed and no one else has yet. This year we have 9 total bred ewes. >She must of cycled early I guess. Still have to do the middle of the night checks because >we know it can't be too long. Do most people find there is a certain time span that their >ewes lamb? > > Mary, speaking of Crafts Bjorn still being around we own his daughter, Spahr Farm >Lucinda. She is about to deliver any time. She is a 5 year old 4 horn and she is probably >the hardest one to catch of our flock. I think she is smarter. > >Nice to hear her pop is still around. Is he on your web page? I would like to print a >picture and put it in our pedigree book. > >Bonnie Sutten > Sheepy Thyme Farm > Edmore, MI > www.agdomain.com/web/sheepythyme/ > > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010303/3d7e7c9b/attachment.html From rlynde at onramp113.org Sat Mar 3 12:33:41 2001 From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] orphan lamb References: <00fb01c0a374$e104dce0$0dc11cd0@oemcomputer> <011d01c0a3fa$7915d7c0$4df9d1d8@Melanie> Message-ID: <000f01c0a408$17b1dd40$0e70a040@rlynde> It's been busy. I have 29 lambs out of 16 ewes and 13 more to lamb. So far no problems except in the case of 2 ewes with twins. In each case one of the twins got on the wrong side of a fence shortly after birth. When I found the missing twin (within a few hours or less of birth) the ewe wanted nothing to do with it, in fact getting very aggressive toward it if it tried nursing. In the first case I held the ewe so that the 2nd lamb could get colostrum. Then I stayed out there for a couple of hours watching. By the way I had smeared placenta and fluids all over both lambs. The ewe still wouldn't take the lamb and I'm bottle feeding him now. He's in with some other ewes and lambs and steals some milk here and there too I think. The 2nd case was this morning. I brought the missing lamb in and at first the ewe started to lick him. Then she saw the other and decided that one was enough. I'm trying to get smarter than the sheep, and I put the first lamb (well cleaned and fed) into a stall where the ewe can't see her. Then she claimed the other twin easily and started cleaning, letting him nurse. Later I introduced the other back, and then she wanted nothing to do with the 2nd. It seems that if I put one in the stall she'll nurse the other. But when they are both with her, she won't take the 2nd lamb. At this point I'll probably bottle feed one, unless someone has another suggestion that works. Robin Lynde Meridian Jacobs Vacaville, CA From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 3 12:24:58 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs etc. References: <200103031602.LAA28216@mail> Message-ID: <002a01c0a406$e0969d60$39f9d1d8@Melanie> My new twins can be seen at http://earthhome.tripod.com/newlamb.jpg If you want to add them to your page I have no objections. Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com For the believer no evidence is necessary for the nonbeliever none is possible ----- Original Message ----- From: linda To: <2512@nethawk.com>; Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] new lambs etc. Hi Bonnie Craft's Bjorn is pictured at http://www.patchworkfibers.com/spahr.html I'll just add it again that I'll be glad to post pictures for anyone that would like to share them with the list. Sheep for sale are also fine. I started doing these simple webpages for myself and others last year. I've enjoyed doing it and it has given me a chance to "see" other flocks. I also have a Bjorn daughter. She is also hard to catch but very easy to handle once caught. She just presented us with a beautiful pair of twins (ram/ewe). Lambing count as of this morning is 4 ewes and 3 rams. I'm extremely pleased with them. They have all been up nursing within minutes and bouncing around shortly thereafter. So far, fleeces look great and all the ewes have really good markings. Plus this is four times as many ewes as we got last year - so I'm ecstatic over that fact alone!! Linda On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:16:02 -0500, wrote: > We had a set of twins born this year and since it is only our 2nd year of lambing we >thought more ewes would of delivered by now as we put our breeding groups together all at >once. Last year 3 ewes lambed and all with in 4days of one another. It has been 2 weeks >since the first one lambed and no one else has yet. This year we have 9 total bred ewes. >She must of cycled early I guess. Still have to do the middle of the night checks because >we know it can't be too long. Do most people find there is a certain time span that their >ewes lamb? > > Mary, speaking of Crafts Bjorn still being around we own his daughter, Spahr Farm >Lucinda. She is about to deliver any time. She is a 5 year old 4 horn and she is probably >the hardest one to catch of our flock. I think she is smarter. > >Nice to hear her pop is still around. Is he on your web page? I would like to print a >picture and put it in our pedigree book. > >Bonnie Sutten > Sheepy Thyme Farm > Edmore, MI > www.agdomain.com/web/sheepythyme/ > > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Sat Mar 3 12:35:55 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs, etc. Message-ID: <000d01c0a408$68a96740$ca96453f@cyrix> I would like to thank Linda Bjarkman again for the generous use of her webpage to show Jacobs from various flocks. They are always fun to see. Bonnie, I am surprised that Kriss B. sold Lucinda. He won a show with her shortly after he purchased her. You have a very nice website. I also like llama and Angora rabbit fiber mixed with Jacob wool. It makes a pretty blend. Was Lily born on your farm, or did Joan part with Wenloch Lily? It seems like all our sheep are hard to catch. They grow up independenty on 40 acres and usually head to the woods when we want to round them up. We usually need 3 people to herd them to a pen up at the barn to catch them. They are wary of others who come to see them. It's nice to hear how excited everyone is over their new lambs. Ours won't start appearing until April and will probably keep coming through May. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010303/e0d3b118/attachment.htm From Jacobflock at aol.com Sat Mar 3 12:39:27 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Dyed-in-the-Wool Message-ID: Fred here...speculation. Homer writes about the multi colored cloaks of the Phoenicians. The Phonecians were the marketeers of the "purple" dyd from sea shells. There were two ways to get the "designer" look; dye the wool or dye the cloth. The dye apparently stayed faster "in the wool" than in the cloth. Who first wrote the phrase? ???? The Phonecians began dyeing about 1500BC...then the industry died out. They ran out of sea shells. Aristotle, Pliny and some other guys I grew up with have a lot of interesting comments on farming...a lot of them, based on observation, very true. A few of them aren't...such as the ram is the cause of twinning (half credit?). Fred From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Sat Mar 3 17:05:26 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Border Colllies Message-ID: <001701c0a42e$0eb3f720$9d96453f@cyrix> Does anyone else out there besides Mary McCracken use a border collie with their Jacob flock? I saw an interesting documentary once about their use in Scotland, which showed how one dog could take the place of 5 men. They would obey whistle commands from distant hills. Very impressive! Our pyrenees got killed on the road several years ago, and we have not had a dog since. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010303/4d4ce10f/attachment.html From mcmcc at ucinet.com Sat Mar 3 20:38:51 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Border Colllies Message-ID: <004601c0a44b$debffb40$4fb523d0@oemcomputer> I wonder if my border collie would be as effective if I had ONLY Jacobs. As it is they are 4 out of about 34. They may be going with the flow. I wouldn't want to start an inexperience dog on resistant Jacobs!! It takes my terrier to get the ram's attention. She lacks finess!! But she dives in where Dots would fear to tread. Of course she doesn't have any direction in mind other than to pull wool. I've only had to use that approach a couple of times in the real world. But the terrier keeps them out of the barn. She just sits in the open door while I feed. The llamas ignore her though. mary -----Original Message----- From: Jim Spahr To: Jacob List Members Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Border Colllies Does anyone else out there besides Mary McCracken use a border collie with their Jacob flock? I saw an interesting documentary once about their use in Scotland, which showed how one dog could take the place of 5 men. They would obey whistle commands from distant hills. Very impressive! Our pyrenees got killed on the road several years ago, and we have not had a dog since. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010303/1964c375/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Sat Mar 3 20:21:53 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010303.212218.-455303.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> Like Mary I have been wondering about a herding dog - have those of you with different breeds of sheep found that herding dogs have more trouble herding Jacobs. We were told that Jacobs tend to stand their ground more than some breeds and are not easily moved or directed by the dogs. There have been a few times here when a well trained border collie would have real nice!!! Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From mcmcc at ucinet.com Sat Mar 3 22:08:30 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <000801c0a458$656b9300$44b523d0@oemcomputer> For years I had a small group of sheep and felt I 'didn't need a border collie'. Then Dots came my way. She had been trained with sheep trials in mind but didn't have trialing intensity. She is a delight to live with and goes at sheep management with a steady thoughtful approach. I can't imagine working sheep without her. I'd guess it really pays to invest in a trained dog or put in the time with a trainer. I have seen things get LOTS WORSE in a hurry using dogs to herd animals. mary -----Original Message----- From: stonecroft235@juno.com To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 6:20 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) >Like Mary I have been wondering about a herding dog - have those of you >with different breeds of sheep found that herding dogs have more trouble >herding Jacobs. We were told that Jacobs tend to stand their ground more >than some breeds and are not easily moved or directed by the dogs. >There have been a few times here when a well trained border collie would >have real nice!!! > >Sue Martin >Stonecroft >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From iseespots at email.msn.com Sat Mar 3 22:39:10 2001 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs References: <000801c0a458$656b9300$44b523d0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <003d01c0a45c$ad543f60$c1af0f3f@pavilion> Hi, I have been thinking about a herding dog for over a year now. I had a ram and ewe lamb this fall that made me really desire one. It has been the rare occasion, though, for me when there was a true need for a dog. We have things set up so the sheep are used to a routine. I can sucker them in for feed and close doors behind me, locking all in a fairly small space if I need to work with one of them. I also have my sheep used to my presence---some of them are downright obnoxious getting in between my legs, pushing me out of the way, and demanding attention. I know of some flocks that aren't as close to their sheep, but just cannot imagine having these lovely critters if I couldn't snuggle, hug, and get close to them routinely. With this in mind, it is not simple justifying another expense, which has kept me looking rather than purchasing a dog. Also be aware that there is a very active rescue network of people around the country. There are usually people very willing and able to help you find a dog that will fit in with what your needs are. These are people who love the individual breed, know their animals, etc. Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses and a few French. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From MView16 at aol.com Sun Mar 4 00:08:03 2001 From: MView16 at aol.com (MView16@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Border Colllies Message-ID: I used a border collie with my sheep--both Jacobs and Shetlands--quite effectively until the dog was recently killed by a car. I feel you need a dog with strong and fearless herding instincts--a dog with "power" as his trainer described him. He was the offspring of 2 excellent working dogs and was never intimidated by the Jacobs or Shetland from his puppyhood. The sheep would run for the barn the moment he set foot in their field or huddle about me if they could not reach the barn. They seemed to have learned that they could avoid his herding maneuvers by quickly reaching the safe haven of their barn or my protection. He never harmed them but they seemed to fear him. He often retrieved loose rams for me. He was not good with children because he saw them as out of control sheep-like creatures who needed rounding up. I adored him, but he was intense and always wanted to work. I am not sure if a less intense dog would work well with Jacobs. Jeanne Massey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010304/de7f21d8/attachment.html From MView16 at aol.com Sun Mar 4 00:15:24 2001 From: MView16 at aol.com (MView16@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <34.11aa30cc.27d3296c@aol.com> I agree that training (for the dog and for the shepherd) is essential for using a dog to herd Jacobs...or any sheep, really. And I also feel that you have to find a dog with the genetic makeup to be a good herding animal. They can save you many frustrating hours of running around a field, red-faced and hoarse! Jeanne Massey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010304/c6cf7a97/attachment.htm From rlynde at onramp113.org Sun Mar 4 01:42:35 2001 From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] orphans Message-ID: <00d301c0a476$4d5535a0$1470a040@rlynde> Update on the rejected lamb I had this morning. While cleaning the barn I alternated putting one and then the other with the ewe for an hour or so. Then I took them both away and brought them both back. They're one big happy family now! Robin Lynde Meridian Jacobs Vacaville, CA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010303/ae11ea61/attachment.html From sbennett at teleport.com Sun Mar 4 10:33:17 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Border Colllies Message-ID: <20010304154025.2172C53584@pairlist.net> We were just given a border collieXaustralian sheperd in January. She is 1 1/2 years old and untrained. She has gotten loose twice and both times she rounded up the ewes and drove them to the barn. It would have been comical, but for the fact that she was running my pregnant ewes (scowl). My husband is training her on basic commands now. Later, he wants to teach her to work with the sheep. I'm skeptical. I have a routine with my ewes, they come into the barn twice a day and I can walk right up to most of them, lock them in if I need to, so what do I need a dog for? Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre >Does anyone else out there besides Mary McCracken use a border collie with >their Jacob flock? I saw an interesting documentary once about their use >in Scotland, which showed how one dog could take the place of 5 men. They >would obey whistle commands from distant hills. Very impressive! >Our pyrenees got killed on the road several years ago, and we have not had >a dog since. > > Mary >Spahr From sbennett at teleport.com Sun Mar 4 10:33:13 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page Message-ID: <20010304154025.4CF8F535A2@pairlist.net> Me, too! However, as far as my sheep are concerned, this diet made me realize why my sheep aren't as fat as other breeders' sheep. I was supplementing their grass hay with a high protein grain ration and this was keeping them thin, but well muscled. This could have become a problem, except... I have an older ewe who "tells" me what they need to eat and approx. how much. She comes into the storage area with me every morning (this started because she won't compete for food). She eats what she wants and I watch. I noticed if the hay is poor, she takes a couple bites of alfalfa pellets. During the early part of her pregnacy she ate the high protein ration almost exclusively. As her pregnancy progressed she ate more cracked corn and less of the high protein ration. I feed the rest of the ewes accordingly and so far haven't had any problems. I have noted that she is unique in that she doesn't overeat. When she's done, she paws (or is that hooves?) at the door to be let out. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre > >By strange coincidence, I'm on the Atkins diet. This is where you eat >mainly meat, cheese, and eggs, in order to induce ketosis and dissolve >body fat. Contrary to anything I would have believed, I'm actually >losing weight by eating prime rib and roast pheasant. I might keep >dieting forever! > >Paul Intihar From bissell at usit.net Sun Mar 4 11:21:09 2001 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs In-Reply-To: <003d01c0a45c$ad543f60$c1af0f3f@pavilion> References: <000801c0a458$656b9300$44b523d0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010304111453.0484ac40@pop.usit.net> At 10:39 PM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I have been thinking about a herding dog for over a year now. I had a ram >and ewe lamb this fall that made me really desire one. ---------------- I have until about 1 month ago always had a heading dog - but for those who think they need one - think!!! These dogs, BCs, Kelpies, etc, are truly a dog that has one thing on it's mind 24 hours per day = keeping those sheep, goats, chickens, etc under THEIR control!!!! They either have to be working or in a kennel or tied or with you. I did have one Kelpie that was satisfied to stay on the house side of the fence after years of battling with her to do so - but her path is still out there. To me they are by far the smartest breeds of dogs that there are but you pay a price by having to have constant control over them = do not deceive yourself into thinking you have a LGD that also herds - ======= From WenlochFrm at aol.com Sun Mar 4 13:15:17 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs, etc. Message-ID: <78.1151c771.27d3e035@aol.com> In a message dated 3/3/01 12:28:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, spahrfarm@dragonbbs.com writes: > . Bonnie, I am surprised that Kriss B. sold Lucinda. He won a show with > her shortly after he purchased her. You have a very nice website. I also > like llama and Angora rabbit fiber mixed with Jacob wool. It makes a > pretty blend. Was Lily born on your farm, or did Joan part with Wenloch > Lily? Mary, Wenloch Easter Lily still resides at Wenloch Farm as do ALL of Molly's progeny. It would take a crowbar to pry me loose from any of them, and Kriss sold his Jacobs so he could get into Romneys and Targhees. He wanted to run with the big dogs at the sheep shows. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010304/b28b9dee/attachment.htm From WenlochFrm at aol.com Sun Mar 4 14:30:14 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs Message-ID: In a message dated 3/4/01 2:01:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, WenlochFrm writes: > In a message dated 3/4/01 11:25:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, > bissell@usit.net writes: > > > >> I have until about 1 month ago always had a heading dog - but for those >> who >> think they need one - think!!! These dogs, BCs, Kelpies, etc, are truly a >> dog that has one thing on it's mind 24 hours per day = keeping those >> sheep, >> goats, chickens, etc under THEIR control!!!! They either have to be >> working or in a kennel or tied or with you. I did have one Kelpie that >> was >> satisfied to stay on the house side of the fence after years of battling >> with her to do so - but her path is still out there. To me they are by >> far >> the smartest breeds of dogs that there are but you pay a price by having >> to >> have constant control over them = do not deceive yourself into thinking >> you have a LGD that also herds - >> >> >> > I can wholeheartedly say amen to the above. I have a Kelpie who is just > turning two. With a Kelpie, those first two years can be a real test of > endurance and patience for the handler. Somehow I got through it without > loosing my sanity (I think). They are high-energy driven dogs that have to > be busy all the time. If you aren't willing to cope with that, then a > herding dog is probably not a good choice. > > I have not tried to do any herding with mine up to this point. When the > weather turns warmer, I will be taking her to see other herding dogs work > as I am told (by Aussies) that is all that is necessary for a Kelpie to > learn what to do. I will say that my girl has saved me from likely injury > on several occasions by keeping rams away from me. So far, she has been > unable to frighten them into retreat, but distracts them by grabbing wool > and hanging on long enough for me to get away. On one occasion, the whole > flock escaped their pasture and she helped get them back in by holding them > from going past the gate while I herded them in. This was all without any > training, and the only reason that I can think of that she still has a > happy home. > > Joan Franklin > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010304/c1bb57ba/attachment.html From WenlochFrm at aol.com Sun Mar 4 16:44:54 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Request for RNorton's email address Message-ID: <8b.329bde2.27d41156@aol.com> Does anyone have Bob Norton's correct e-mail address? I'm getting bounced messages when I send to rvnorton@rconnect. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010304/17b07703/attachment.htm From Jacobflock at aol.com Sun Mar 4 22:48:10 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Border Colllies Message-ID: <8f.7b25ee3.27d4667a@aol.com> Fred here. We only have Jacobs. We have two BCs; Tib is from Scotland, Tee her daughter was born here. Tib has farm and competition experience. We bought her trained for whistle, voice and signals. Her first experience with Jacobs was a real test for her and Joan and I had to work the sheep with her to put the fear of the dog into the sheep, particularly rams. After she worked them a couple of times and both Tib and the sheep knew "what they were supposed to do" it has saved a lot of time. Tib was trained and she and the trainer taught us how she works. She is tireless and during the summer we have to watch the dog and sheep for signs of heat stress when they are being brought in. Tib spends non-working time in the back yard...working the fence separating her from the sheep. She wants to work.. and work...and work. When she comes up to the barn for penning or into the fields to bring them in she knows its time to work. Tee is Tib's daughter, two years old and just beginning to work the sheep. She picks up sight and voice (not whistle) and we have only run her with the "obedient ewes". Tee spends her off hours practicing "come bys" and Away tos" with two house cats...the third swatted her to buzz off and she doesn't herd that cat. We have run Tib and Tee together bringing in ewes from the back field, about 8 acres. If you get a BC puppy...or perhaps any herding puppy...they must grow and mature before working. You can train them as a puppy but if they get whooped up on by the sheep, they will be timid and never be able to do a skiddledo...grab a sheep...or go into the flock to cut a sheep out. Be very patient and help the dog train the sheep. Jacobs are loose flockers, very "defensive" and not well liked by the herding dog groups. Jacobs can make herding dogs look bad, in which case a man can be a dog's best friend. Fred. From GBAnderson at UCDavis.Edu Sun Mar 4 22:51:57 2001 From: GBAnderson at UCDavis.Edu (Anderson, Gary B.) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] 2001 JSBA Annual Meeting Message-ID: <412D098B2703D311AD74005004774DCFB2F4DC@asmail.ucdavis.edu> Information regarding the June 8-10 JSBA Meeting to be held in Lodi, CA was included in the February 2001 JSBA Newsletter. In addition to the Association's annual business meeting, the 2001 JSBA Meeting will include a Jacob wool show and fleece competition for fun and profit; presentations and displays on processing of Jacob wool for sale and use; short seminars on rare-breed genetic conservation and sheep reproduction and health; formal and informal discussions with speakers who are nationally recognized as experts in their fields; opportunities to meet and interact with fellow Jacob sheep breeders (e.g., times arranged between sessions, at the California wine and cheese reception, or over a BBQ dinner); and chances to contrast breeders' Jacob sheep for education and exchange of germ plasm. Enclosures in the Newsletter included registration materials, information on lodging near the hosts' farm, instructions on entering fleeces in the wool show, and health requirements for sheep brought to the meeting. To ensure that attendees leave the Meeting with a true taste of California living, organizers are trying to arrange an earthquake, a major celebrity break-up, and a guest appearance by the real Mickey Mouse. The meeting is open to anyone interested in Jacob sheep. If you did not receive the JSBA Newsletter with information on the meeting, you may contact me directly (gbanderson@ucdavis.edu) with your mailing address, and I will send you information on the meeting. From Jacobflock at aol.com Mon Mar 5 00:13:41 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Grannie ewes Message-ID: Fred Horak. Every once in a while a "grannie ewe" comes along; the ewe that will willingly adopt an orphan...or try to steal another lamb if she feels she needs more than one. I suspect we have two grannie ewes...Angie and Corgy...Fieldwood half sisters...similar behavior. This raised a question. Something like...is "grannie behavior" an inherited trait, homone imbalance (may or may not be inherited), or what? Does anyone else have a "grannie ewe" or seen anything on this behavior? Fred From rlynde at onramp113.org Mon Mar 5 03:12:10 2001 From: rlynde at onramp113.org (Robin Lynde) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] 2001 JSBA Annual Meeting References: <412D098B2703D311AD74005004774DCFB2F4DC@asmail.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <007a01c0a54b$fbd45220$1a70a040@rlynde> I am organizing the Wool Show, but I noticed that my e-mail address is printed wrong in some of the info. It should be rlynde@onramp113.org Robin Lynde Meridian Jacobs Vacaville, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anderson, Gary B." To: "Jacob List (E-mail)" Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] 2001 JSBA Annual Meeting > Information regarding the June 8-10 JSBA Meeting to be held in Lodi, CA was > included in the February 2001 JSBA Newsletter. In addition to the > Association's annual business meeting, the 2001 JSBA Meeting will include a > Jacob wool show and fleece competition for fun and profit; presentations and > displays on processing of Jacob wool for sale and use; short seminars on > rare-breed genetic conservation and sheep reproduction and health; formal > and informal discussions with speakers who are nationally recognized as > experts in their fields; opportunities to meet and interact with fellow > Jacob sheep breeders (e.g., times arranged between sessions, at the > California wine and cheese reception, or over a BBQ dinner); and chances to > contrast breeders' Jacob sheep for education and exchange of germ plasm. > Enclosures in the Newsletter included registration materials, information on > lodging near the hosts' farm, instructions on entering fleeces in the wool > show, and health requirements for sheep brought to the meeting. > > To ensure that attendees leave the Meeting with a true taste of California > living, organizers are trying to arrange an earthquake, a major celebrity > break-up, and a guest appearance by the real Mickey Mouse. > > The meeting is open to anyone interested in Jacob sheep. If you did not > receive the JSBA Newsletter with information on the meeting, you may contact > me directly (gbanderson@ucdavis.edu) with your mailing address, and I will > send you information on the meeting. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From MView16 at aol.com Mon Mar 5 05:52:51 2001 From: MView16 at aol.com (MView16@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs Message-ID: <33.117fedc3.27d4ca03@aol.com> I agree completely with Ed and Joan about herding dogs with strong instinct! If you want one to work, they have to have unyielding instinct, but that instinct makes them VERY FOCUSED on work and not cuddly pets. I think my Border, Blue, was smarter than I was. He was very well trained but wanted to herd everything that moved...including real motorboats and remote-controlled toys and cats and cows and... I mentioned before that children and he never saw eye-to-eye. He wanted the kids rounded up in a neat package; the kids did not like their legs nipped when they failed to obey. If I didn't let Blue work, he could be quite naughty. I imagine that there are Borders who are more petlike, but I also imagine that they might not be very good at herding Jacobs and Shetlands. My Shetlands were actually more difficult than the Jacobs. With 120 acres and 70 sheep, I needed a herding dog...even with my friendly (but wary) animals. Living with Blue...plus a very willful, rodent-killing Jack Russell...definitely took the romanticism out of pet ownership (and sometimes made dog-rescue agencies seem very attractive) even though I loved these devils dearly for the many years of their lives. Jeanne Massey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010305/a20f1f49/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Fri Mar 2 19:37:32 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new lambs etc. In-Reply-To: <006101c0a377$2637ca00$52e112d0@default> Message-ID: <200103051227.HAA07818@mail> Craft's Bjorn is pictured at www.patchworkfibers.com/spahr.html I'll just add here that I started putting together very simple webpages for Jacob Sheep breeders last year and will be very glad to post any pictures that anyone would like to share with the list. I also have a Craft's Bjorn daughter - Spahr Farm Lorraine. We already have a Patchwork Lorraine, so we call her Boots or sometimes BooLaRoo. She lambed this week and I'm very happy with the lambs. She's also a hard one to catch - but easy to handle when caught. Linda On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:16:02 -0500, wrote: > We had a set of twins born this year and since it is only our 2nd year of lambing we >thought more ewes would of delivered by now as we put our breeding groups together all at >once. Last year 3 ewes lambed and all with in 4days of one another. It has been 2 weeks >since the first one lambed and no one else has yet. This year we have 9 total bred ewes. >She must of cycled early I guess. Still have to do the middle of the night checks because >we know it can't be too long. Do most people find there is a certain time span that their >ewes lamb? > > Mary, speaking of Crafts Bjorn still being around we own his daughter, Spahr Farm >Lucinda. She is about to deliver any time. She is a 5 year old 4 horn and she is probably >the hardest one to catch of our flock. I think she is smarter. > >Nice to hear her pop is still around. Is he on your web page? I would like to print a >picture and put it in our pedigree book. > >Bonnie Sutten > Sheepy Thyme Farm > Edmore, MI > www.agdomain.com/web/sheepythyme/ > > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010302/7b07680d/attachment.htm From theblacks at interisland.net Mon Mar 5 07:47:58 2001 From: theblacks at interisland.net (Black, Tiar and Jason) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs Message-ID: <000e01c0a572$834eacc0$521f3fd1@tiarblac> I just had to jump in on this one! I agree to thatworking dogs have a strong instinct. I just recently had this discussion with a man at our local pet store. Apparently a woman here on our island "very carefully" planned to breed her dog. Mind you the dog was 3/4 australian shepered and 1/4 dalmation and the sire was boxer and chow. The man at the store was saying how careful she was about which dog this woman bred hers to and how glad he was that he had gotten this perfect puppy. My response was that he was going to have a heck of a time trying to keep the dog out of my sheep fields as his other philosophy was that the dog "wiould never be put on chain" and they live about 1/2 a mile away from us. Now why in the world would you even say something like that? And secondly why in the world would you breed such strong instincts into a dog that you are placing in pet homes? If you ask me it is a recipie for trouble and quite honestly I am tired of bringing dogs to the pound or calling the sheriff to come and get them. I don't like the idea of shooting them but I am begining to see that it may be the only way. I have already sent at least 5 loose dogs off to the pound since we have had our lambs. Its like we are a magnet for them! I do have to admit that I have the best crossbred herding dog in the world - she is 1/2 blue merle collie and 1/2 border collie so not only is she a beautiful blue merle but she has herding instincts that just won't quit. I never have to wonder where my children are because Taya lets me know and I always know when to go to the barn because if there is a new lamb or a ewe in trouble she runs from the house to the barn back and forth until I come (almost like Lassy telling someone that Timmy has fallen in the well). She will attack any other dog that comes in the fence and is very protective of my family and our livestock - she places herself between us and the 'eminant danger'. So I guess there are some good points to crossbreds with herding instincts but it all has to do with who bred them, why and their screening the potential owners which doesn't happen to often.We will be breeding Taya this year but we already have working homes for over 10 of her pups and we will be breeding her to a border collie that has won several trials and currently works everyday - just like her. I just realized I am ranbling - sorry it's late....Anyway just my 2 cents. Tiar Black ZLazyJ Farm French Lop & Dwarf Hotot rabbits & registered Jacob sheep Friday Harbor Wa theblacks@interisland.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010305/7bdde2a5/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Mon Mar 5 07:40:16 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] extra message and some lambs Message-ID: <200103051248.HAA07924@mail> sorry for the extra message there. my email client has started sending my drafts. apologies to those of you that received messages from me with half a message. Lamb count is now 5 rams and 4 ewes. Last year we had all but one ram and the year before we had all ewes. So it looks like we have pretty much averaged out the extremes. Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010305/b40f0d47/attachment.htm From iseespots at email.msn.com Mon Mar 5 07:55:40 2001 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lamb behavior References: <200103051227.HAA07818@mail> Message-ID: <002a01c0a573$95e1d000$c1af0f3f@pavilion> Hi all, We are at 9 lambs and holding. I wanted to ask about a behavior I see every so often in an individual lamb---that of sneaking a freebie from another mom (or pregnant ewe that is just having a very "mommy" day). I can understand a lamb that has just realized he is hungry and mom is further away than the closer and potentially more promising spicket going for the closer one. Usually, the ewes make it very clear that their equipment is theirs and their individual lambs---not for public use. I much prefer this attitude on the part of ewes. What I had not seen before last night was the reverse of this.... I have this ONE lamb that will probably wind up being a ewe with what Diane and Janine wrote of as "presence" or "carriage". She might be the smallest lamb out here, but she has always been the spunkiest, quite alert, heads-up....the list goes on (not my style birth fleece, though---all hair!). I diverge... Ian and I stood watching the ewes and lambs for about 10-15 minutes last night and noted Bliss calling in her twins for supper----here comes "Laurel"! She knocked one of the lambs out of the way and Bliss got a big huffy and nobody got supper. Then Beverly called in her ewe lamb----Laurel tried the same stunt with her with the same results. This set Iris's ewe lamb thinking it must be supper time......she couldn't convince mom to get up, so she went searching without any results. Before it was over, Laurel's brother had supper, but Laurel didn't get more than a swig out of her own mom. Laurel has a good and tight bond with her mother, so it is not a matter of her not being accepted by her mom.....she just seems to be an incredible sneak. There is something I like about her straight-forward manner, though. She is sticking around here despite the fleece! She is also an interesting sort----both parents were 4-horned animals, clear spacing, and you should see the 2 horns that are surfacing rather grandly on her head! This was a 99.5% set of 4-horned lambs----GRRRR. Of 4 lambs her dam has produced, she is the first that is 2-horned---and this does not appear to be fusing either. Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses and a few French. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From iseespots at email.msn.com Mon Mar 5 08:06:12 2001 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] copied e-mail comments on getting rid of stray dogs..... Message-ID: <004601c0a575$0e353aa0$c1af0f3f@pavilion> Hi all, This came across last month on one of my e-mail lists and really caught my eye......don't think I could do this, but sure did make me think and might be of some benefit to others on this list. SNIPPET: Over the years I too have had problems with stray dogs getting into the livestock. It's not a pretty sight to see a 1300 lb milk cow come in for milking with an udder ripped wide open. Nor is it a pleasant sight to see ewes or lambs maimed to the extent that the animals must be destroyed. It's never an easy problem to cure. My solution is to get the rifle out and make damn sure the culprit never leaves the place. I then get my loader tractor out, put the offender in the bucket, go out in a field, dig a 3 foot hole with the loader and bury the carcass. I do not mark the grave. I WOULD NOT under any circumstances use poison on stray dogs. Coyotes maybe. This is off the subject, but from time to time when I have bitches in season I will get stray intact males coming on the place. Some of these dogs are quite clever and can find ways to get in with a bitch in heat. If the dog is friendly I will catch him and castrate him on the spot. Then I send them on their way. I never see them again. END OF SNIPPET. Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses and a few French. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From oberlef at desupernet.net Mon Mar 5 07:53:53 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page References: <00fb01c0a374$e104dce0$0dc11cd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001001c0a573$8da1ff00$88202940@dl1009203> Exercise also comes into play in getting the ketones out of the system. In our other non-jacob flock, Dave makes an effort to keep the girls active by taking hay up on the hill to encourage them to take a hike... while helpful for watching ewes, I am wondering if the routine of penning up ewes for the few days before delivery could up the chances of build-up. Just a thought. Katrina Lefever ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Simmons" To: "Jacob List" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page > > > >Just ONE thought for the experts. When I was pregnant with my first child I > >was diagnosed with ketosis due to DEHYDRATION. Is there any similar > >connection with sheep?>Melanie > > Hope you'll accept a comment from a non-expert :-) > > Ketosis - in BOTH sheep and humans - occurs when there are not enough > nutrients in the body to "feed it." The body, realizing its hungry, breaks > down fat cells, and ketones are a poisonous by-product. Thus, when a > diabetic does not have enough insulin to utilize the food he's eaten, his > body may have the same reaction; also, someone seeking to lose too much > weight too soon will have the same reaction. > > When ketones are formed, they are toxic in direct proportion to the > "percentage" of ketones in the system. Normally, a well-hydrated system > will try to pass the ketones in the urine. If you are dehydrated, you have > a double-whammy: first, you urinate less frequently, and therefore ketones > build up faster than you can get rid of them; and second, the percentage of > ketones are higher, quicker, because there's less water in the system to > "water them down." > > Having said that, I don't *know for sure* when it comes to sheep, but I'm > willing to bet that it is. (See, I said I*wasn't* the expert :-)) > > thom > > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > From SharHill at aol.com Mon Mar 5 09:29:03 2001 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambs! Message-ID: <41.836f9fc.27d4fcaf@aol.com> Hi all. We had our first lambs born last night! I am so excited. We have twins from Patchwork Dixie, a ram and a ewe. They are beautifully marked and both, I think, will have four horns. The ewe is quite sturdy and strong, the ram is still a bit wobbly on his feet but is nursing well. I never saw any of my ewes bred and I didn't have any exact due dates, so I have been making 2:00 a.m. checks for the past 10 days. Last night she was happily munching hay at midnight, so I thought I would skip this night as I was getting a bit sleep deprived and my husband was going to check them before he left for work at 5:00. OF COURSE the lambs were born by the time he got there. I could just kick myself. I really wanted to be there to see them born. They were also born on the coldest night we have had in a month. Ah well. I am relieved that all are well. I can't stop smiling. Sharon From mcmcc at ucinet.com Mon Mar 5 11:38:34 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page Message-ID: <000b01c0a592$b98e68a0$55b523d0@oemcomputer> I believe exercise is important right to delivery. I haul hay out into the field every day. Great chance to watch too. Those that pick at the feed and then return to the corral are generally CLOSE. mary -----Original Message----- From: dave & katrina To: jacob-list Date: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:13 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page >Exercise also comes into play in getting the ketones out of the system. In >our other non-jacob flock, Dave makes an effort to keep the girls active by >taking hay up on the hill to encourage them to take a hike... while helpful >for watching ewes, I am wondering >if the routine of penning up ewes for the few days before delivery could up >the chances of build-up. Just a thought. Katrina Lefever > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Thomas Simmons" >To: "Jacob List" >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:59 PM >Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Ketosis Page > > >> >> >> >Just ONE thought for the experts. When I was pregnant with my first child >I >> >was diagnosed with ketosis due to DEHYDRATION. Is there any similar >> >connection with sheep?>Melanie >> >> Hope you'll accept a comment from a non-expert :-) >> >> Ketosis - in BOTH sheep and humans - occurs when there are not enough >> nutrients in the body to "feed it." The body, realizing its hungry, >breaks >> down fat cells, and ketones are a poisonous by-product. Thus, when a >> diabetic does not have enough insulin to utilize the food he's eaten, his >> body may have the same reaction; also, someone seeking to lose too much >> weight too soon will have the same reaction. >> >> When ketones are formed, they are toxic in direct proportion to the >> "percentage" of ketones in the system. Normally, a well-hydrated system >> will try to pass the ketones in the urine. If you are dehydrated, you >have >> a double-whammy: first, you urinate less frequently, and therefore >ketones >> build up faster than you can get rid of them; and second, the percentage >of >> ketones are higher, quicker, because there's less water in the system to >> "water them down." >> >> Having said that, I don't *know for sure* when it comes to sheep, but I'm >> willing to bet that it is. (See, I said I*wasn't* the expert :-)) >> >> thom >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Jacob-list mailing list >> Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From runzicker at erols.com Mon Mar 5 11:43:24 2001 From: runzicker at erols.com (Royal Unzicker) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Granny Behavior Message-ID: <000b01c0a593$65fc8f40$32613bd0@runzicker> Fred, I doubt this qualifies as true granny behavior. But my Rockies Stacia tried to claim one of a set of twins (the first lambs born this season). She was so protective of it! I knew Lobelia would have twins so thought it strange she had only one. After checking Stacia closely I realized she had not lambed. I put Lobelia and both lambs in a jug. She accepted both. The lamb Stacia was trying to adopt was sort of weak as it had not nursed, at least not much. I got it to nurse. All the while Stacia was standing along side the jug baaing her head off and pawing at the panel! I really began to wonder if it might be hers. I also worried that she might try to steal a lamb from everyone else who lambed before she did. I was quite sure Stacia wasn't due for a while. I had to pen her outside the barn for the day. By night time she seemed to have calmed down. Five other ewes delivered before she did, but she did not try to adopt any of those lambs. But the interesting thing about this to me is that Stacia is out of Fieldwood 9043! (and Maverick Levi). I don't know if this is a close Fieldwood relative to Corgy and Angie. Royal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010305/8e206c22/attachment.html From stonecroft235 at juno.com Mon Mar 5 12:25:53 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Granny ewes Message-ID: <20010305.122555.-455303.1.stonecroft235@juno.com> Fred, your comments about granny ewes reminded me of our situation here two years ago. We have an old Fieldwood ewe (we bought her from Ruth Ross who bought her from Susanna Davy) who is a wonderful mother and self-proclaimed defender of the flock. Her name is Anna (Fieldwood9212) & she is a bugger to catch and is constantly watching for danger - if we feed in the barn she grabs a mouthful to eat, then proceeds to stand at the door to maintain guard, dashes back for another bite, returns to her post and so forth. Two years ago her daughter, a yearling ewe & first time mother, lambed first out in the meadow apparently very early in the morning, producing twins. When I arrived the new mother was happily caring for ONE of her twins and Anna was caring for the other one. I tried very unsuccessfully to put the adopted baby back with his original mother but she would have nothing to do him, and Anna was determined to keep him. At that point we were very concerned that this little guy would drink up Anna's colostrum and there would be none left when she finally lambed - fortunately she lambed within the next 24 hrs. with twins. Interestingly, she elected to keep the adopted baby and one of her own, but refused her own second baby. It appeared that in her mind she knew she should have only two - three were a crowd!! And being the strong willed gal she is, there was no changing her mind. We kept her confined for 5 days and held her against her will so the refused baby could drink colostrum/milk, and after that point we bottle fed the orphan. Anna is a great mother - she would go to great lengths to defend and care for her babies but it was an interesting drama. In April Anna will be 9 years old - and there is no indication that she is aging, except that she carries her unborn lambs a bit lower -- that ole gal will probably live to a ripe old age out sheer stubborness!!! And you know what---we have learned to love that old girl despite her feistiness!!! (Her sire was Fieldwood Ari and her great, great sire came from Scone Palace - and her dam was a Sheepside ewe with Sheepside lines, Reynolds, and then imported sheep.) Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From SharHill at aol.com Mon Mar 5 15:41:29 2001 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] oops Message-ID: <9c.c39e591.27d553f9@aol.com> I posted earlier about the birth of twins, a ewe and ram lamb. My husband checked the first one and said, "It's a girl!" I didn't doubt him. Welpie, I just took another look and Louise will have to be called Louis. Ah well. Sharon From snielsen at orednet.org Mon Mar 5 12:40:41 2001 From: snielsen at orednet.org (Susan L. Nielsen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Grannie ewes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 Jacobflock@aol.com wrote: > This raised a question. Something like...is "grannie behavior" an inherited > trait, homone imbalance (may or may not be inherited), or what? Does anyone > else have a "grannie ewe" or seen anything on this behavior? Fred I was just writing, in an offline note, about one of our ewes who lost her lamb this year. After docking, when we released all the lambs and their mothers into the paddock, where the bereaved ewe was watching, she was practically frantic to have one of those lambs. Since she was so agressive that a sheep train-wreck looked about to happen (lambs and mothers were scattered all over the place, lambs going to the wrong mothers, mothers butting lambs away, and ewes all butting each other, and poor Lucille trying to get away with just one lamb for herself) that we finally put her into one of our portable pens. She has been bawling ever since, though she can see the rest of the flock, and they are quite nearby. I am certain that, if I had needed a surrogate mother, she'd have accepted the lamb. Poor girl. Life is so unfair sometimes. Susan -- Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops |"...Gently down the Beavercreek, OR, USA |stream..." snielsen@orednet.org | -- Anon. From snielsen at orednet.org Mon Mar 5 14:53:04 2001 From: snielsen at orednet.org (Susan L. Nielsen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewes talking Message-ID: I know there must be a word for the wonderful, growly, muttering sound the ewes make for the lambs. Does anybody know what this word might be? I can't imagine that shepherds have neglected to name this sound! Susan -- Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops |"...Gently down the Beavercreek, OR, USA |stream..." snielsen@orednet.org | -- Anon. From iseespots at email.msn.com Mon Mar 5 16:45:02 2001 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:39 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ewes talking References: Message-ID: <004e01c0a5bd$89aa1140$16af0f3f@pavilion> Susan and all, I call it "mamma call", and that is my warning that I best get out of my warm bed in the middle of the night and head out to watch another miracle of birth occur. We use a baby monitor and it sits by the bed so I hear all the noises in the barn area. WONDERFUL. The noise starts up about the time their water bag is expelled before the first delivery and continues on for 24-48 hours after birth. I love it. MEH ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses and a few French. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From lambfarm at sover.net Mon Mar 5 18:54:42 2001 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] mama sound Message-ID: <000101c0a636$486690e0$9275c6d1@lambfarm> I think of it as mama's singing lullabies to babies. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010305/cade7d99/attachment.htm From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Tue Mar 6 09:01:28 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] crooning Message-ID: <14012879104434@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> Wait until you have triplets, and there is a different coo for each lamb as it comes out. Must be hard work, licking and cooing and pushing all at the same time.. I take my hat off to them. Two sets of ewe twins and a tup single so far this lambing........then there will be the slack time and then another rush..... Susan From WenlochFrm at aol.com Tue Mar 6 11:10:24 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs Message-ID: <62.c75a5bb.27d665f0@aol.com> I think Royal's email below was meant to go to the List. Thanks for the correction to Bob's address. Curiosity on your lambs, Royal. There is a theory that freckling and spotting on the legs are linked. So, could you tell me if that freckled lamb has leg spotting and the other less or no leg spotting? Joan Franklin Subj: Re: [Jacob-list] Request for RNorton's email address Date: 3/4/01 5:00:55 PM Eastern Standard Time From: runzicker@erols.com (Royal Unzicker) To: WenlochFrm@aol.com Joan, Bob's email is: rvnorton@rconnect.com. Hope this works. Rockies Joni presented us with 2 nice rams last night. She is a first time mother and doing a great job. One lamb is 40ish% black and very freckled. The other is 20ish % and no freckling. Mom is freckled but nothing like the lamb. The sire is Kisakanari Tarkington and not freckled. However, he is so dark -80%- that if he were freckled I would not know it. Since none of his other lambs are freckled, I attribute it to Joni. Royal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010306/70c2d25b/attachment.html From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 6 11:22:33 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blizzards & Lambs Message-ID: <00c301c0a659$a6fbe4c0$1d1761cc@oemcomputer> Of course, it had to be.... I've got two feet of snow on top of the last two feet, with the snow still coming down like crazy. It's so high I can't carry the water buckets from the house to the barn unless i do it one at a time on my shoulder with water slopping in my face....and, true to my calendar, we had TWO lambings this morning. Mary Ellen, your gal Doris gave birth to a large and lovely 2H gal (via Midian) with tiny eye and muzzle patches, and she has been christened "Blizzard...." Betty, your gal Edwina also gave me a little girl, picture-perfect markings, via Esau, two nice horn buds....named "Bridget." Both are about 50/50, and are strong....it's so funny to see the lambs trying to hang out together while the moms try to "break them up." I kept fairly good records this year; both ewes were with their rams for only a four-day period, and lambing for both is somewhere between 146 -149 days. Now if I can just get Marilla - who is slightly overdue and HUGE - to drop my some goodies while I'm home and snowbound...... thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010306/f4a977f3/attachment.htm From runzicker at erols.com Tue Mar 6 11:46:16 2001 From: runzicker at erols.com (Royal Unzicker) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] herding dogs References: <62.c75a5bb.27d665f0@aol.com> Message-ID: <004a01c0a65c$f6d61080$14613bd0@runzicker> Yes, Joan, the freckled lamb has four black legs up to the "knees." The unfreckled one has only a black spot on one back foot. I do love the "look" of the black legs. The freckled lamb also appears to have a more "hand spinner friendly" fleece. Of course it is too early for me to tell, but based on past experience, that is my guess. Royal ---- Original Message ----- From: WenlochFrm@aol.com To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] herding dogs I think Royal's email below was meant to go to the List. Thanks for the correction to Bob's address. Curiosity on your lambs, Royal. There is a theory that freckling and spotting on the legs are linked. So, could you tell me if that freckled lamb has leg spotting and the other less or no leg spotting? Joan Franklin Subj: Re: [Jacob-list] Request for RNorton's email address Date: 3/4/01 5:00:55 PM Eastern Standard Time From: runzicker@erols.com (Royal Unzicker) To: WenlochFrm@aol.com Joan, Bob's email is: rvnorton@rconnect.com. Hope this works. Rockies Joni presented us with 2 nice rams last night. She is a first time mother and doing a great job. One lamb is 40ish% black and very freckled. The other is 20ish % and no freckling. Mom is freckled but nothing like the lamb. The sire is Kisakanari Tarkington and not freckled. However, he is so dark -80%- that if he were freckled I would not know it. Since none of his other lambs are freckled, I attribute it to Joni. Royal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010306/39da08d5/attachment.html From iseespots at hotmail.com Tue Mar 6 11:44:55 2001 From: iseespots at hotmail.com (Mary Hansson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blizzards & Lambs Message-ID: HI Thom and all, Glad to hear of Doris' delivery. Sounds like her behavior has gone down-hill since moving to the NE. MY girls NEVER deliver during nasty snow/ice storms. Don't know why (we HAVE had a few), and it goes against everything any long-time delivery room nurse will tell you, but they just haven't managed that stunt yet. They do it a day or two before or after. It is windy and terribly cold today---expecting it to reach about 37-39 degrees. I am not going to whine, as I am thankful to not be in 4 foot deep snow. Mary Ellen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 6 11:45:14 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] herding dogs Message-ID: <011701c0a65c$d2233a60$1d1761cc@oemcomputer> "Yes, Joan, the freckled lamb has four black legs up to the "knees" That's very interesting....my most heavily freckled gal (Edwina) has long black patches on her front legs, while my most pristine, purest white fleece (Calista) has no freckles, and white leg with tiny patches. And they're half-sisters :-) thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010306/7f03c67b/attachment.htm From iseespots at hotmail.com Tue Mar 6 11:56:14 2001 From: iseespots at hotmail.com (Mary Hansson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] herding dogs Message-ID: Hi, Another theory on freckling that seems to work a bit better than others says that animals with SMALL spots are much more likely to be freckled than animals with LARGE spots overall. The Jacob research project is able to look at both factors in the sheep presented. MEH _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From melody at empnet.com Tue Mar 6 12:07:12 2001 From: melody at empnet.com (melody) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sick lambs--any suggestions? In-Reply-To: <62.c75a5bb.27d665f0@aol.com> Message-ID: <031001c0a65f$e3230180$b5472cd0@hale> . One of my sister's yearling ewes had twins last Thursday, and wouldn't take them. After holding the ewe so they could get the colostrum through the first day, she has been bottle feeding with Purina milk replacer. They have been doing well, but this morning began to act as though they were in pain, just standing around humped up. They acted as though their hind legs are weak or painful, too. Now their front legs are showing the same weakness. Any ideas what this could be, or what to do? Melody at CritterLand Redmond OR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010306/7cb62be6/attachment.html From stonecroft235 at juno.com Tue Mar 6 20:39:27 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010306.203929.-141215.1.stonecroft235@juno.com> Thom, The weatherman was predicting at least 2 feet of that snow to hit us here in PA, but we were blessed with only 4" - SOME of us were disappointed. However, my round-as-a-blimp (as in very pregnant) girls are delighted because deep snow makes waddling around even more of a challenge. The mental visual of you carrying water on your shoulders did make me chuckle - but I suppose it wouldn't be so funny if it was me....wintertime is a bit challenging, although I know you New Englanders are a hardy crew!!! And, I wanted to warn you, you might want to just bring the sheep into the house - the weather channel is predicting another Nor'ester this weekend!!!!! Sue Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 6 20:36:44 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <008b01c0a6a7$11c5d160$2cc11cd0@oemcomputer> the weather channel is predicting another Nor'ester this weekend!!!!! >Sue >Stonecroft ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?!? I don't get the weather channel (or anything at all, really), so I hadn't heard this before......My driveway is currently a snow canyon with sides 6 feet high...[NO kidding]....AARGHHHH!!!!!! Forget bringing the sheep into the house, I think I'll just go live in the barn for the rest of the month..... thom From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 6 21:19:07 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Snow-bound..... Message-ID: <00fb01c0a6ac$fde06060$2cc11cd0@oemcomputer> OK, we've rushed headlong into Cabin Fever around here. ....we just caught my 8 year old son showing my 4 year old son how the ram and the ewes "make babies" by demonstrating with animal crackers................I'm going back to shovelling.......... thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010306/3de99bcc/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Wed Mar 7 08:01:36 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Grannie ewes Message-ID: <20010307.080138.-141215.3.stonecroft235@juno.com> Fred: There have a few responses on list - didn't know if you had responses personally or not regarding the grannie ewe issue. Is there is link between Fieldwood ewes and the grannie ewe "syndrome"? Or not enough data for a conclusion? Sue Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From SharHill at aol.com Wed Mar 7 08:54:04 2001 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new Mom Message-ID: <6f.121a1c8b.27d7977c@aol.com> Hi all, Our Corriedale cross ewe lambed yesterday afternoon. 2 ewes this time! Everything is fine now, but this was her first time lambing and she didn't seem to have the faintest clue about what was going on. She got the first one out, and I cleaned out its mouth. She didn't turn around to check it out, so I put it up near the mom's head and she tried to butt it away. She showed absolutely no interest in it at all. I ended up having to dry it off myself, and she would have nothing to do with it. When the second one was born, I put it near her head and she briefly licked its head and then lost interest. I dried this one mostly myself as well. We had to hold her still to let the lambs nurse, as otherwise, she kept running away from them and butting them occasionally. Finally after about 3-4 hours she let them nurse without being restrained by me and showed some interest in them by sniffing them etc. If I hadn't been there, these little lambs would have died, as she had no idea of what she was supposed to do. They made it through the night just fine and she is acting more motherly now, but I was wondering if this is common behavior for first time moms. Do you think she will do better the next time around? What a shame it would have been if these pretty little things had died. One of them is coal black with a white toupee, and the other is colored almost like a Jacob, but with a solid black body and white marking on the head, chest, legs and tail. (the dad is our Jacob ram). I can't wait to see what the wool will be like. It looks now to be nicely crimped. It was an exciting afternoon. It all happened right when I brought the kids home from school, so they got to see the whole thing. They were impressed, especially my daughter. One of the lambs kept climbing up in her lap. She was enchanted. This was my first time to witness the birth of lambs, so it was pretty special for me too. Sharon From wolfpen at rabun.net Wed Mar 7 10:00:28 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new pictures etc Message-ID: <200103071508.KAA31887@mail> I'm sure glad I wasn't in your part of the country yesterday, Thom! Hope you don't any more bad weather for awhile. We just had terrible winds and lost trees and power for the day and much of the night. No problems, but a big clean up job for this weekend. I posted some pictures for Kate Barrett in Oregon, including a new ram that she has for sale. The url is http://members.nbci.com/wolfpen/rubypeak I may the names mixed up on the ewes - Kate, please let me know. The formatting was lost in the sending. Some new Patchwork lambs are at: http://www.patchworkfibers.com/lambs.html Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010307/3cb7c4b1/attachment.html From hettick.1 at osu.edu Wed Mar 7 11:04:54 2001 From: hettick.1 at osu.edu (Heather Hettick) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new Mom In-Reply-To: <6f.121a1c8b.27d7977c@aol.com> Message-ID: I have not had any trouble with first time Jacob moms so far. I'm up to three lambs this year and two were out of first time moms and I barely missed the births every time. My biggest problem this year is not having the ewes shorn and the ewe lamb moms are especially wooly underneath and needed a trim to help the lambs find milk efficiently. Last year I had a first time mom have twins and she didn't need any help at all, but the twins were noticeably smaller than the other lambs. The boy that was born yesterday afternoon looks a lot like the girl we had a couple days ago and their mothers kept looking at each others lambs and getting confused so I penned the newer mom and baby up by themselves for a couple hours just to help them get acquainted, but overall they seem to catch on very fast to motherhood. We have one non-Jacob, a Tunis/Romney ewe lamb, due to lamb soon, but she seems extremely fascinated by all the other lambs and treats them very gently, so I'm hopeful she will do a good a job with her own as the Jacobs do. Most of the other ewes seem to be ignoring the new lambs except to gently move them out of the way of food. Only one ewe is a little rougher than I'd like towards the new lambs. By the way, my original flock of 4, of which I have one left now, has a largely Fieldwood background and I have not had ewes try to steal lambs, but I did have an experienced ewe unexpectedly reject one of her twins last year. He was born over two hours before his sister and was totally white. Either she forgot about him by the time the second lamb arrived or just decided the girl looked better- can't say I blamed her. She did finally sort of accept him after we forced the issue for a week or so, but he always had to nurse quickly and from the rear and the daughter was the obvious favorite. Heather Hettick Moonstruck Jacob Sheep Creston, OH hettick.1@osu.edu -----Original Message----- From: jacob-list-admin@jacobsheep.com [mailto:jacob-list-admin@jacobsheep.com]On Behalf Of SharHill@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:54 AM To: jacob-list Subject: [Jacob-list] new Mom Hi all, Our Corriedale cross ewe lambed yesterday afternoon. 2 ewes this time! Everything is fine now, but this was her first time lambing and she didn't seem to have the faintest clue about what was going on. She got the first one out, and I cleaned out its mouth. She didn't turn around to check it out, so I put it up near the mom's head and she tried to butt it away. She showed absolutely no interest in it at all. I ended up having to dry it off myself, and she would have nothing to do with it. When the second one was born, I put it near her head and she briefly licked its head and then lost interest. I dried this one mostly myself as well. We had to hold her still to let the lambs nurse, as otherwise, she kept running away from them and butting them occasionally. Finally after about 3-4 hours she let them nurse without being restrained by me and showed some interest in them by sniffing them etc. If I hadn't been there, these little lambs would have died, as she had no idea of what she was supposed to do. They made it through the night just fine and she is acting more motherly now, but I was wondering if this is common behavior for first time moms. Do you think she will do better the next time around? What a shame it would have been if these pretty little things had died. One of them is coal black with a white toupee, and the other is colored almost like a Jacob, but with a solid black body and white marking on the head, chest, legs and tail. (the dad is our Jacob ram). I can't wait to see what the wool will be like. It looks now to be nicely crimped. It was an exciting afternoon. It all happened right when I brought the kids home from school, so they got to see the whole thing. They were impressed, especially my daughter. One of the lambs kept climbing up in her lap. She was enchanted. This was my first time to witness the birth of lambs, so it was pretty special for me too. Sharon _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From CindyMcDee at aol.com Wed Mar 7 20:35:47 2001 From: CindyMcDee at aol.com (CindyMcDee@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ewe behavior Message-ID: Hi, My two Jacob ewes are kind of aggressive towards the other three Romeny cross lambs that were born about 2 weeks ago from the new ewes. i.e. they chase them. Is this normal? The lambs escape fairly easily. I have some new ewes that were bred earlier than mine, (mine, including the Jacobs, are due this month or later) so it is not as if the lambs are sneaking any liquids from the Jacobs. thanks cindy j From creagchild at monad.net Wed Mar 7 21:08:47 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Yahoo! (not the net company) Message-ID: <01b801c0a774$b66b3ca0$596fe7ce@oemcomputer> Well, my dear old Marilla finally gave birth - 152 days after the observed breeding! (I'm so glad everyone decided to wait until I was homebound from snow to start dropping lambs!) Thanks to Joan Horak for coaching me through this one: Marilla's water broke at 3:00 pm this afternoon; the front hooves of the lamb were sticking out at 6:00 pm, and in spite of all the grunting and pushing, that's pretty much how things stayed until 7:45 when the head finally came out. She was pushing maybe a 1 1/2 minutes apart for a LONG time, and 15 minutes ago we finally delivered.....A HUGE ram, with two horn buds that i swear are bigger than his hooves! For those of you who bought some of Dan Kennedy's PEI flock, Marilla was one of those ewes. She is 4H, about 85% dark, with blue eyes and a thin "mustache" that connects her muzzle patch to her two eye patches. She was bred by Levi, a 50/50 4H ram with brown eyes. The ram they produced must be 85% - perhaps 90% - dark, but with very white legs and *blue* eyes. He hit the hay and promptly stood up and started checking out everything in the barn! Marilla is still fat, and i'm wondering if I'm going to find another little one in an hour or so; and these horn buds are so huge - and both parents so strongly 4-horned - I'm wondering of these are really fused bases and there are more than two horns here..hmmmm...... thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010307/13761838/attachment.htm From ostrom at genesisnet.net Wed Mar 7 22:15:08 2001 From: ostrom at genesisnet.net (Judith Ostrom) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb Indy 500 Message-ID: <003a01c0a77e$0ea3af20$56fba73f@default> Hi Folks, Our lambs came a little early this year and winter was still hanging around, so we converted the big inside of the barn into a lambatorium. We put straw bales all around the perimeter and here and there for climbing on like a Discovery Zone for sheep. After work when I go down to feed, the little tykes--all 15 of them--go zooming around the outside leaping off the bales, jumping, kicking, bouncing, racing round and round. Meanwhile, the mothers are eating in the middle trying to keep one eye on their offspring and the other on that morsel of hay. It's hilarious! And there I sit on an overturned bucket when I should be in the house folding laundry! Oh well... Judy Bill and Judy Ostrom Genesis Farm Registered Jacob Sheep Herman, NE 68029-4256 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010307/b2fa7c07/attachment.html From kseaman at pacificrim.net Thu Mar 8 02:40:13 2001 From: kseaman at pacificrim.net (Kathi Seaman) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] shots References: <01b801c0a774$b66b3ca0$596fe7ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <003d01c0a7a3$03eac800$c0e3ecc7@default> At what age do you give your lambs their first shots? Kathi Seaman www.hot4dogs.com Hyline Obedience Training for Dogs Washington State -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010307/9c6dd723/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Thu Mar 8 17:31:17 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: [Jacob-list]labor Message-ID: <011901c0a81f$7e57a6e0$23c11cd0@oemcomputer> Kate wrote, "How is the snow now?? You are so patient!! After my experience of an exhausted ewe who had 2/3 of the triplets still inside for over 4 hours, I just don't wait that long any more. I pulled ....Maybe I am over eager?? I gave all of them about an hour and 1/2, and then started "helping" Do the rest of you just wait and see???" Kate - Well, I have to tell you, I was NOT relaxed during this episode! I watched constantly, and called a few folks to ask their opinions. The reason I did not intervene was that the ewe did not appear to be in distress or pain (any greater then normal labor pains, that is!). If she had seemed exhausted or behaved in any way other than what i expected, I would have pulled. I tend to be a very hands-off shepherd in most areas: when I had shetlands with pink eye, I tried fresh air before I tried medicine; I use pasture rotation and chickens rather than worming medications; and I would rather my sheep lamb by themselves if at all possible. So, with me, it's a lot of WAIT and SEE. In the meantime, all are doing fine, and the lambs are all careening off of haybales and doing that sideways-walk-thing and it's pretty hysterical. And we've only just begun :-) thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010308/3793e7a5/attachment.html From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Thu Mar 8 07:42:56 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw: Virus Warning Message-ID: <12425656905186@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> >X-Sender: tsteele@mail.south-ayrshire.gov.uk >Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:21:34 +0000 >To: agillespie@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk,dmurray@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk, > jpreid1@thefreeinternet.co.uk,mnelson@netcomuk.co.uk, > njefford@q-one.co.uk,rgillan@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk, > staylor@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk,srussell@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk, > tracy@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk >From: Tanya Steele >Subject: Fw: Virus Warning > >>From: "James Crawley" >>To: "Tanya Steele" >>Subject: Fw: Virus Warning >>Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:59:28 -0000 >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 >> >> This is the virus I was talking about! ----- Original Message ----- >>From: Ann Dalziel To: Lynne Pronk ; Jean Olsen ; & Casey Deboer ; Gary >>Phillips ; ClareStarkey ; Ann Standring ; AndrewDalziel Sent: Friday, >>February 23, 2001 5:56 PM Subject: Fw: Virus Warning >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Mizek To: & Dave Kesler >>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: Fw: Virus Warning >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Meuleman To: Jeanna >>Wiswasser ; &BECKY VORST ; & S NISWANDER ; &DUSTY SYBERT ; BOB AND LINDA >>SHARRITS ; KEITH SCHROEDER ; DON SCHMIDT ; Sudy Reichenbaugh ; Sharon >>Nusbaum ; Jo Ann Mizek ; Marta McCullough ; kayrimer ; Alicia Inskeep ; >>sharon hainline ; Marv Griffith ; TOM FOLTZ ; DENNY EDINGER ; Janet >>Blank ; Barb ; Vernon Askins Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:08 PM >>Subject: Fw: Virus Warning >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joann Ruen To: Rose Ann German >>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 11:58 AM Subject: Fw: Virus Warning >> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 5:44 AM Subject: Virus Warning >> A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by >>Microsoft ( http://www.microsoft.com>and by McAfee ( http://www.mcafee.com ) as the >>most destructive ever! This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by >>McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply >>destroys Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information >>for its functioning are stored. This virus acts in the following manner: >>It sends itself >>automatically to all contacts on your list with the title "A Virtual Card >for >> As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened, the computer >> When the ctrl+alt+del keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus >>destroys Sector Zero, thus permanently >> Yesterday in just a few hours this virus >>caused panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN >>(http://www.cnn.com). >> So don't >>open any mails with subject "A Virtual Card for You". As soon as >> Please pass on this mail to all your >>friends. >>Forward this to everyone in your address book. I would rather receive >>this 25 times than not at all.Also: Intel announced that a new and >>very destructive virus was discovered recently. If you receive an >>email called "An Internet Flower For You", do not open it. >>Delete it right away! This virus removes all dynamic link libraries >>dll files) from your computer. Your computer will not be able to >>boot up. >> >>SEND THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST!! >Tanya Steele >Senior Information Administrator >CyberCentre >Carnegie Library >AYR >KA8 8EB >01292-618492 >e-mail work: tsteele@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk > > ooooO > ( ) > \ ( > \_) > >Yesterday is history. >Tomorrow a mystery. >Today is a gift. >That's why it's called the present! > > > > > > > > From oberlef at desupernet.net Thu Mar 8 10:18:13 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Spelt, and lambing stories Message-ID: <000c01c0a7e3$1587a5c0$1e202940@dl1009203> While we wait for our lambs to arrive, I have been enjoying all the website postings of new lamb arrivals. Thanks to all who take the time to post pictures. No lambs yet at our farm... was expecting some last weekend, but guess they didn't take on that breeding, so we are still sitting tight. On the other hand, the 70 ewe flock we care for in MD (commercial wool breeds) are popping them out right and left. Over 25 at last count (in not much more than a week!). Some interesting things have happened down there this year. Mostly multiple births and very healthy lambs. At the advice of an old farmer, Dave switched from feeding sweet grain to feeding spelt (lower protein, high fiber,etc) with great results. Has anyone who grains tried this with their Jacobs? NO prolapses or ketosis, healthier lambs and ewes look more conditioned and comfortable. They also go less crazy fighting for the food but still seem to like it. We were pleased. Side note: two interesting births... one ewe birthed a single, was put in the jug and settled down with her lambs, only to birth two more lambs the next day. No extended labor or straining. Lambs from separate matings? In a separate case, a lamb was born without an anus! Fred Horak, I think I remember you talking about this. Very strange sight. Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010308/7961de39/attachment.htm From blotham at yahoo.com Thu Mar 8 19:40:43 2001 From: blotham at yahoo.com (Abigail Brown) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lamb Indy 500 In-Reply-To: <003a01c0a77e$0ea3af20$56fba73f@default> Message-ID: <20010309004043.4915.qmail@web702.mail.yahoo.com> Judy wrote: It's hilarious! And there I sit on an overturned bucket when I should be in the house folding laundry! Oh well... * * * * * * * * * * * * RESPONSE: Don't feel guilty about the postponed house work! You only live once!!! Go ahead and take time to "smell the lambs" Abigail Brown * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- Judith Ostrom wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Our lambs came a little early this year and winter > was still hanging around, so we converted the big > inside of the barn into a lambatorium. We put straw > bales all around the perimeter and here and there > for climbing on like a Discovery Zone for sheep. > > After work when I go down to feed, the little > tykes--all 15 of them--go zooming around the outside > leaping off the bales, jumping, kicking, bouncing, > racing round and round. Meanwhile, the mothers are > eating in the middle trying to keep one eye on > their offspring and the other on that morsel of hay. > It's hilarious! And there I sit on an overturned > bucket when I should be in the house folding > laundry! Oh well... > > Judy > > Bill and Judy Ostrom > Genesis Farm > Registered Jacob Sheep > Herman, NE 68029-4256 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From kbarrett at oregontrail.net Thu Mar 8 12:35:10 2001 From: kbarrett at oregontrail.net (Kate Barrett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Yahoo! (not the net company) Message-ID: <001e01c0a7f6$223d25c0$57542e0c@katebarr> Thom: How is the snow now?? You are so patient!! After my experience of an exhausted ewe who had 2/3 of the triplets still inside for over 4 hours, I just don't wait that long any more. I pulled out a twin dorset X , whose mother had pretty well given up, and with one of the Jacobs, I needed to push back the second twins head, and straighten out the front legs, and then what the heck, I gave her a little assistance. They are all fine, but it took my triplet mom so long to recuperate, I just didn't want to go through that with these other moms. Maybe I am over eager?? I gave all of them about an hour and 1/2, and then started "helping" Do the rest of you just wait and see??? I am late for work nearly every morning this last few weeks watching the lamb races. It is just so funny to watch the 12 of them race and jump and butt each other. I just stay a little longer in the office once I get there. They are only this rambunctious for such a short while, and it makes all that lost sleep seem so insignificant! Kate Barrett Ruby Peak Jacobs -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Simmons To: jacob-list Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Yahoo! (not the net company) Well, my dear old Marilla finally gave birth - 152 days after the observed breeding! (I'm so glad everyone decided to wait until I was homebound from snow to start dropping lambs!) Thanks to Joan Horak for coaching me through this one: Marilla's water broke at 3:00 pm this afternoon; the front hooves of the lamb were sticking out at 6:00 pm, and in spite of all the grunting and pushing, that's pretty much how things stayed until 7:45 when the head finally came out. She was pushing maybe a 1 1/2 minutes apart for a LONG time, and 15 minutes ago we finally delivered.....A HUGE ram, with two horn buds that i swear are bigger than his hooves! For those of you who bought some of Dan Kennedy's PEI flock, Marilla was one of those ewes. She is 4H, about 85% dark, with blue eyes and a thin "mustache" that connects her muzzle patch to her two eye patches. She was bred by Levi, a 50/50 4H ram with brown eyes. The ram they produced must be 85% - perhaps 90% - dark, but with very white legs and *blue* eyes. He hit the hay and promptly stood up and started checking out everything in the barn! Marilla is still fat, and i'm wondering if I'm going to find another little one in an hour or so; and these horn buds are so huge - and both parents so strongly 4-horned - I'm wondering of these are really fused bases and there are more than two horns here..hmmmm...... thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010308/584defec/attachment.html From mcmcc at ucinet.com Thu Mar 8 21:11:57 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Spelt, and lambing stories Message-ID: <001d01c0a83e$52c2a2e0$59b523d0@oemcomputer> Apparently Manx kittens are prone to lack of anus or lack of muscles to control it. Must be HORRIBLE. I'm finally more aware of constipation problems and using mineral oil in both ends. It's part of the hunched back treatment this year. Also found a picker up suppliment for any little ones who seem less than enthusiastic. Mighty busy bunch of babies. Glad the weather has been so great. mary -----Original Message----- From: dave & katrina To: jacob-list Date: Thursday, March 08, 2001 5:24 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Spelt, and lambing stories While we wait for our lambs to arrive, I have been enjoying all the website postings of new lamb arrivals. Thanks to all who take the time to post pictures. No lambs yet at our farm... was expecting some last weekend, but guess they didn't take on that breeding, so we are still sitting tight. On the other hand, the 70 ewe flock we care for in MD (commercial wool breeds) are popping them out right and left. Over 25 at last count (in not much more than a week!). Some interesting things have happened down there this year. Mostly multiple births and very healthy lambs. At the advice of an old farmer, Dave switched from feeding sweet grain to feeding spelt (lower protein, high fiber,etc) with great results. Has anyone who grains tried this with their Jacobs? NO prolapses or ketosis, healthier lambs and ewes look more conditioned and comfortable. They also go less crazy fighting for the food but still seem to like it. We were pleased. Side note: two interesting births... one ewe birthed a single, was put in the jug and settled down with her lambs, only to birth two more lambs the next day. No extended labor or straining. Lambs from separate matings? In a separate case, a lamb was born without an anus! Fred Horak, I think I remember you talking about this. Very strange sight. Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010308/50bedc3e/attachment.htm From MMATHIOW at aol.com Thu Mar 8 23:00:59 2001 From: MMATHIOW at aol.com (MMATHIOW@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Granny ewes Message-ID: <9e.11184dff.27d9af7b@aol.com> I laughed when I read this because I have Fieldwood "Sally Field" 9240. She was also sired by Fieldwood Ari and will be 9 in April. She had twins on Tuesday and despite having a difficult time she is a wonderful mother. Her ram lamb had trouble standing for a couple of days and old Sally would nudge him until he stood then she would get him between the barn wall and herself to stabilize him. He's now a feisty three day old and she is frantic about getting out of the jug so she can go back to being the matriarch of the flock. At lambing time I have to always separate her from ewes with lambs or she would definatley take a couple for herself. Mary Mathiowetz Painted Fleece Farm Johnstown, CO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010308/8d1ad280/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Fri Mar 9 07:09:49 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ewe behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200103091253.HAA03219@mail> If your Jacobs are not hurting the other lambs, but just chasing them away, I'd consider that within the realm of normal and acceptable behaviour. I enjoy watching the different ways my Jacob ewes react to being mothers. I've never had a granny ewe that would allow other lambs to nurse, but I do have one that allows her lambs to bring friends over to play "king of the mountain." It's quite a sight to see RubyBelle with a half a dozen lambs standing on her back and leaping off her head. Priscilla never allowed her lambs to play with the other lambs until they just got too big and fast for her to control. She would work her lambs like a herding dog to keep them by themselves. It was really kinda sad the year she singled and poor Everett wasn't allowed to play with the other lambs. I always thought that Priscilla was something of snob. And every year there is one ewe/lamb combination that spends alot of time standing a few feet apart while both argue about which one will make the move to come to the other. It took me awhile to realize that nothing was wrong with that - it's just two strong Jacob personalities in a showdown! These lambs start to display their independence pretty quickly. Linda On Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:35:47 EST, wrote: >Hi, > >My two Jacob ewes are kind of aggressive towards the other three Romeny cross >lambs that were born about 2 weeks ago from the new ewes. i.e. they chase >them. Is this normal? The lambs escape fairly easily. I have some new ewes >that were bred earlier than mine, (mine, including the Jacobs, are due this >month or later) so it is not as if the lambs are sneaking any liquids from >the Jacobs. > >thanks >cindy j > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010309/eec0f215/attachment.htm From sbennett at teleport.com Fri Mar 9 08:36:09 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] new Mom Message-ID: <20010309134744.61E5953565@pairlist.net> The first lamb born at our farm was out of a first time mother. She tried to kill it, repeatedly. We cleaned it up, held her down and made her nurse. Couldn't leave her alone with the lamb, so we took it in the house for the night. The next morning, she wanted her lamb back and was oh so gentle and became very protective of her (evidently once she got her milk in, we were the bad guys for taking her baby). The following year, she lambed and cared for him, but was overprotective, i.e., he had to stay at her side at all times and wasn't allowed to go play with the other lambs. She was mean to other lambs that got too close. I sold her to a small farm (with full disclosure of her lambing behavior). They jug their mothers for several days (I'm not set up for that) and have had no problems with her. We kept that first lamb. She takes good care of her lambs, is a little more protective of her space than others, but not the real meanie her mother was. The only other problems we've had with our jacob moms have been with a couple of first time "twinners" where they have cleaned up the first lamb and didn't realize they had a second one. Just dropped it and walked away. Fortunately, I was in the vicinity both times, cleaned up the twin a little and presented it to the mother. The twin was accepted both times, with some incredulous looks (what do you mean there's another one, I have this one over here, but it smells right, so it must be mine). And the first born seemed to be the favorite both times. All in all, I think Jacobs are really good mothers and whatever happens the first time, they seem to know what to do next time around. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre > >Hi all, > >Our Corriedale cross ewe lambed yesterday afternoon. 2 ewes this time! >Everything is fine now, but this was her first time lambing and she didn't >seem to have the faintest clue about what was going on. She got the first >one out, and I cleaned out its mouth. She didn't turn around to check it >out, so I put it up near the mom's head and she tried to butt it away. She >showed absolutely no interest in it at all. I ended up having to dry it off >myself, and she would have nothing to do with it. When the second one was >born, I put it near her head and she briefly licked its head and then lost >interest. I dried this one mostly myself as well. We had to hold her still >to let the lambs nurse, as otherwise, she kept running away from them and >butting them occasionally. Finally after about 3-4 hours she let them nurse >without being restrained by me and showed some interest in them by sniffing >them etc. If I hadn't been there, these little lambs would have died, as >she >had no idea of what she was supposed to do. They made it through the night >just fine and she is acting more motherly now, but I was wondering if this >is >common behavior for first time moms. Do you think she will do better the >next time around? What a shame it would have been if these pretty little >things had died. One of them is coal black with a white toupee, and the >other is colored almost like a Jacob, but with a solid black body and white >marking on the head, chest, legs and tail. (the dad is our Jacob ram). I >can't wait to see what the wool will be like. It looks now to be nicely >crimped. > >It was an exciting afternoon. It all happened right when I brought the kids >home from school, so they got to see the whole thing. They were impressed, >especially my daughter. One of the lambs kept climbing up in her lap. She >was enchanted. This was my first time to witness the birth of lambs, so it >was pretty special for me too. > >Sharon From iseespots at email.msn.com Fri Mar 9 09:24:27 2001 From: iseespots at email.msn.com (iseespots) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ewe behavior References: <200103091253.HAA03219@mail> Message-ID: <000901c0a8a4$a6c67220$d4af0f3f@pavilion> Linda B said: it's just two strong Jacob personalities in a showdown! Although the noise ewes and lambs make when they are determined not to be the one to move is obnoxious, the better flock replacement animals DO exist in these pairings! I like strong wills in my sheep---except when I want to do something they don't want to do of course. Mary Ellen ISeeSpots Farm www.iseespots.com Home of Jacob Sheep, and German Angora Rabbits, colored German Angora crosses and a few French. Renewable fleeces, loving personalities, friends. From Jacobflock at aol.com Fri Mar 9 14:02:06 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambing stories: Message-ID: Fred Horak here. Katrina has seen something unusual, a lamb without an anus; the defect is called artesia ani. Artesia ani is a congenital defect causing a build up of feces, distension of the abdomen and death. There was a case of artesia ani in a Jacob reported last year; the result of very close breeding. A couple years ago and each from time to time, the "Journal of the JSC" has carried lists of, reports and articles on various Jacob birth defects. Birth defects happen. Some might be preventable by examining breeding relationships but they are not preventable if no one is willing to suggest they occur nor report them and seek a cause when they do occur. Bonking and burying a defect does nothing for the Jacob breed or breeders. For ten years, or longer, there has been one birth defect reported and shared among Jacob breeders, condylar displasia. In the past few years, more defects are being reported and their probable causes are being identified. For example, last year we reported our experience with Twinkle Toes; a case of adactyly, no hooves. This year two more Jacob breeders reported the problem. Another defect, not previously reported, was reported this year, a lamb that looks like it has four ears (two extra small "ears"); perhaps otognathia. Has anyone else seen this defect? Cases of severe ataxia from condylar dysplacia (skull/spine joint misalignment) have been reported. A watch for a lysosomal storage disease called gangliodosis, a progressive "spinal cord" problem...it occurs in pure bred cats, dogs, sheep and in some "close" human groups...(generally observed, say, in the first six months) has been requested and about six cases of gangliodosis from across the country have been reported. It is genetic. Parrot mouth (brachygnathia), dwarfism and even infertility have been reported. There are many defects; lethal and sub-lethal. The sub-lethal move through the breed quietly, unobserved, unreported and then someone says, "I think I have seen a problem". If it remains unobserved, or worse, observed and unreported, the various lines are at risk. Defects are most often autosomal recessive genes...autosomal means they can be carried by rams and ewes...they are not sex linked. Recessive means that they are not seen until two recessives "match" and show the defect...they can get carried from generation to generation. Defects most often appear and get passed by close breeding, inbreeding (line breeding gone bad). The lethal defect is either non-viable or aborted; they just get buried. It is my initial observation (I am not a vet but we support..make the house and car payments...for several vets) that crossing the 15% inbreeding coefficient seems to show some dwarfism, crossing the 20-25% threshhold sets up an observable significant visible defect either in the subject itself or in its offspring. The Jacob gene puddle is the prime source for defects; not getting out of the puddle by using different and unrelated rams can make the puddle a genetic defect mess. OPINION: Conservation depends on conversation, sharing observations. We owe thanks to the Jacob breeders that have reported defects and remain anonymous and those that are willing to share their observations. They have addressed this difficult issue as part of conserving the breed. I am optimistic, that after ten years, the genetic health...not just the spots and horns...of the Jacob breed is being considered. Registries are often thought of as lists of pure bred animals that look right. More than that, they are books of breeders willing to share genetic information vital to conservation breeding. END OF OPINION. Fred Horak 1165 E. Lucas Road Lucas, TX 75002 From joyew at mindspring.com Fri Mar 9 14:25:44 2001 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Defects Message-ID: <3AA92E38.804BE9BE@mindspring.com> Hi all, We have had 2 such defects as no anus in the 18 years we have been raising Jacob. One was the first or second year we were breeding and the other was just 2 years ago. Can't say for sure but I do not think they were related. And I know when it occurred when we first began breeding the Jacob that we had not done any line breeding. Not to say you are wrong Fred. I will look at the lines and see just if there is any correlation. Edie,Joy Farm From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 9 15:01:36 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] data; defects Message-ID: <00d601c0a8d3$c01a78a0$986ee7ce@oemcomputer> Mary Ellen: Regarding the research project: Do you want info on lambs a few days old? Including unknowns, such as number of horns when they'renot clearly visible yet"? Fred: My first lamb born this year was born with one ear held at the normal angle (slightly above horizon), while the other ear flops down like a bassett hound. Three days later, it shows no sign of changing. Is this a condition that stems from being squished in the womb, which will correct itself over time; or a squishing that might *not* correct itself; or ??? I have to admit it makes this little girl look awfully cute... :-) From wheaten at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 9 15:15:20 2001 From: wheaten at bellatlantic.net (Dr. David R. Lincicome) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambing stories: References: Message-ID: <3AA939D8.707E4762@bellatlantic.net> 1500 hrs/Friday 9 March 2001 Fred, I applaud you for this message on reporting genetic defects in Jacob sheep. This is a message that should be a cornerstone of conservation for any animal be it rare or abundant. At the moment I am involved similarly with Wheaten Terriers, for the fancy is seeing the genetic results of years of inbreeding for esthetic purposes beginning with just a small group of animals. David Jacobflock@aol.com wrote: > Fred Horak here. Katrina has seen something unusual, a lamb without an anus; > the defect is called artesia ani. Artesia ani is a congenital defect causing > a build up of feces, distension of the abdomen and death. There was a case > of artesia ani in a Jacob reported last year; the result of very close > breeding. > > A couple years ago and each from time to time, the "Journal of the JSC" has > carried lists of, reports and articles on various Jacob birth defects. Birth > defects happen. Some might be preventable by examining breeding > relationships but they are not preventable if no one is willing to suggest > they occur nor report them and seek a cause when they do occur. > > Bonking and burying a defect does nothing for the Jacob breed or breeders. > For ten years, or longer, there has been one birth defect reported and shared > among Jacob breeders, condylar displasia. In the past few years, more > defects are being reported and their probable causes are being identified. > > For example, last year we reported our experience with Twinkle Toes; a case > of adactyly, no hooves. This year two more Jacob breeders reported the > problem. > > Another defect, not previously reported, was reported this year, a lamb that > looks like it has four ears (two extra small "ears"); perhaps otognathia. > Has anyone else seen this defect? > > Cases of severe ataxia from condylar dysplacia (skull/spine joint > misalignment) have been reported. A watch for a lysosomal storage disease > called gangliodosis, a progressive "spinal cord" problem...it occurs in pure > bred cats, dogs, sheep and in some "close" human groups...(generally > observed, say, in the first six months) has been requested and about six > cases of gangliodosis from across the country have been reported. It is > genetic. > > Parrot mouth (brachygnathia), dwarfism and even infertility have been > reported. > > There are many defects; lethal and sub-lethal. The sub-lethal move through > the breed quietly, unobserved, unreported and then someone says, "I think I > have seen a problem". If it remains unobserved, or worse, observed and > unreported, the various lines are at risk. Defects are most often autosomal > recessive genes...autosomal means they can be carried by rams and ewes...they > are not sex linked. Recessive means that they are not seen until two > recessives "match" and show the defect...they can get carried from generation > to generation. Defects most often appear and get passed by close breeding, > inbreeding (line breeding gone bad). The lethal defect is either non-viable > or aborted; they just get buried. > > It is my initial observation (I am not a vet but we support..make the house > and car payments...for several vets) that crossing the 15% inbreeding > coefficient seems to show some dwarfism, crossing the 20-25% threshhold sets > up an observable significant visible defect either in the subject itself or > in its offspring. The Jacob gene puddle is the prime source for defects; not > getting out of the puddle by using different and unrelated rams can make the > puddle a genetic defect mess. > > OPINION: Conservation depends on conversation, sharing observations. We owe > thanks to the Jacob breeders that have reported defects and remain anonymous > and those that are willing to share their observations. They have addressed > this difficult issue as part of conserving the breed. I am optimistic, that > after ten years, the genetic health...not just the spots and horns...of the > Jacob breed is being considered. Registries are often thought of as lists of > pure bred animals that look right. More than that, they are books of breeders > willing to share genetic information vital to conservation breeding. END OF > OPINION. > > Fred Horak > 1165 E. Lucas Road > Lucas, TX 75002 > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From humbug7 at worldnet.att.net Fri Mar 9 19:22:36 2001 From: humbug7 at worldnet.att.net (Kathryn Shirley) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] data; defects References: <00d601c0a8d3$c01a78a0$986ee7ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3AA973CC.6F41C408@worldnet.att.net> Well, I'm not Fred, but I had a ewe lamb born here just like that. The cartilige had not fully formed in her left ear. Now it is starting to fill out and sticks straight out to the side! The vet says that it should normalize over time. Thom, I also have some of Dan's flock. Three have lambed and have been terrific mothers. They have all singled, but the lambs have really nice fleeces. Kate Shirley, Humbug Farm Thomas Simmons wrote: > Mary Ellen: Regarding the research project: Do you want info on lambs a few > days old? Including unknowns, such as number of horns when they'renot > clearly visible yet"? > > Fred: My first lamb born this year was born with one ear held at the normal > angle (slightly above horizon), while the other ear flops down like a > bassett hound. Three days later, it shows no sign of changing. Is this a > condition that stems from being squished in the womb, which will correct > itself over time; or a squishing that might *not* correct itself; or ??? I > have to admit it makes this little girl look awfully cute... :-) > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 9 19:12:08 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] data; defects Message-ID: <001c01c0a8f6$bf9666a0$abc11cd0@oemcomputer> Kate - Ah, yes, Kate-of-the-Interesting-Trailer, right?! LOL! I was surprised that Marilla singled - she was HUGE - but it looks like my other Killorglem gals will produce singles as well. I will say this: her ram was the biggest and strongest newborn lamb I have ever seen! thom From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 10 07:43:38 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] snowflake's page Message-ID: <200103101252.HAA06258@mail.rabun.net> I was just having a cup of coffee and taking a virtual flock tour of Jacob Sheep via the Internet and came across Mark & Cathie William's Snowflake page. It really made me grin. If you haven't seen it yet, it'll bring you a smile this morning. http://www.jacobsheep.com/snowflake.htm Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010310/b43b0023/attachment.html From locohack at sunlink.net Sat Mar 10 07:47:07 2001 From: locohack at sunlink.net (Lonny Hackenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <412001361012477760@sunlink.net> Hello All, I just wanted you to all know that I have been reading your stories on lambing and have been truly enjoying them. I do agree that I get very excited with each lambing also. We just finished lambing on Thursday. That brings our total to 14. We have 2 and 4 horned, mostly rams. We just have a small flock, but everyone except two ewes had twins. We also had two ewes that didn't lamb at all again. They will probably be culled. One of them has always appeared to be a bit smaller than normal with a love ly fleece. Connie Hackenburg Lo-Co Meadows Jacob Sheep, Miniature Fainting Goats, Golden Retrievers, Arabian Horses --- Lonny Hackenburg --- locohack@sunlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010310/364d720f/attachment.htm From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 10 09:43:31 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Electrolyte recipe Message-ID: <000a01c0a970$7e7fa620$bb67e2d1@Melanie> Was it Linda? who kindly posted a home-made electrolyte recipe when I was having problems with Zoe? I've passed it on to a number of people but now appear to have lost it. Would you mind posting it again, and also, let me know where it came from? Thanks Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com For the believer no evidence is necessary for the nonbeliever none is possible From oberlef at desupernet.net Sat Mar 10 10:01:00 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs, 1/2 cycles and that ear thing. Message-ID: <002101c0a973$119cdd40$24202940@dl1009203> Marsh View Pearl presented two pretty ewe lambs this morning, 152 days after the observed breeding. Interestingly, I saw Abraham breed both Pearl and her 1/2 sister Ruth one after the other and both of them seem to be following the same pattern. They did not take the first time, then both cycled a 1/2 cycle (7 days) later and took... at least I assume that is what happened. (Ruth has not lambed yet, but looks like she might go today.) Tom and Kate- I swear, whenever something is mentioned on this list, the next day I notice it in our flock! *smile* One of Pearl's lambs has that ear thing you guys were just talking about... I posted a picture on our lamb page for a day or so if anyone wants to see it. I have to re-send the main picture but the words and the floppy-ear picture are on. http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/lambpage.htm Happy Lambing! Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010310/19b98ed0/attachment.html From sbennett at teleport.com Sat Mar 10 10:02:59 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] defect? Message-ID: <20010310151729.B114853549@pairlist.net> The story of Itty Bitty: Last year, I bred Ashley as a ewe lamb to Bandit (they are unrelated). During her pregnancy I observed that she did not compete for food and I tried to make sure she got her share and she seemed to be in decent condition. She complained (baa) alot during the last two months of her pregnancy. I didn't see her get bred, so don't know if Itty Bitty was born early or not. It was a smooth delivery, but he weighed less than three pounds! He looked perfect, except his feet were very soft and when he tried to walk, they spread forward and turned up slightly. He was so small, Ashley had to squat for him to reach a teat. The really sad part was that he was such a fighter, but he died 8 days later. This year, I bred Ashley to a different ram (one that is slightly related, I am line breeding and looking for a replacement for my older ram). Ashley produced a nice, good sized, set of twins, with no apparent problems. Her cousin, Berry, (a ewe lamb) mated with the same ram as Ashley (through the fence, not by design) gave birth at 141 days. Her ewe lamb weighed approx four pounds. She looked great, except for the soft hooves. That was four days ago. The hooves seem to be hardening and her feet appear to be straightening out. I have been giving her (the ewe lamb) a vitamin supplement and exercising her lower joints. It looks like she's going to make it. So, last year, I thought maybe this was a genetic defect. Now I'm thinking that Itty Bitty was a preemie and breeding ewes as lambs is not a particularly good idea. Has anybody else seen this, have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre From pcj at efn.org Sat Mar 10 10:53:34 2001 From: pcj at efn.org (Penelope) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] defect? Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010310075326.010fca30@mailhost.efn.org> At 07:02 3/10/01 -0800, sbennett wrote: >So, last year, I thought maybe this was a genetic defect. Now I'm >thinking that Itty Bitty was a preemie and breeding ewes as lambs is not >a particularly good idea. Has anybody else seen this, have any thoughts >on this? Hello Debbie (& List), We had something simmilar with a couple of our goat kids last year. Our mutual neighbor advised giving a couple of doses of BoSe, one a day, I think. And we did see an improvement over the course of a couple of days. I could find out again -- this reminded me that we probably should have given our pregnant ewe's BoSe. Oops. We've managed to be preoccupied with the baby through the entire sheep pregnancy. The baby is what keeps me from jumping in to the list more often (reaching, grabbing, pulling toward herself these days -- especially things like my water glass, all over the key board. Today I have a new keyboard. In a couple of weeks a water proof layer to go on top of it.) My spouse thinks that the sheeps hooves are often soft when they are born. He adds that he thinks the ewe squatting is a good mothering instinct. Our one ewe who has lambed so far this year squats a bit for her lambs, and she did last year for her one larger lamb. None of the lambs have shown any difficiulty reaching a teat without the ewe (Jadzia) squatting. We've got another ewe due to lamb any day now -- she's had an udder like a dairy goat since tuesday, so we're just waiting. I'm interested in seeing other folks comments too. What's the norm? peace penny ps -- how's the Llama? -- -- Penelope Jacob, Doula (& John Nanci, Alchemist) pcj@efn.org Quality horned milk goats & registered Jacob Sheep: Stonering herd & flock. Year-And-A-Day Farm, Umpqua Valley, Oregon radical, fundamental, ornery & friendly poly pagan folk From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Sat Mar 10 11:42:12 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] defects Message-ID: <001901c0a981$102e02a0$c796453f@cyrix> We observed artesia ani last year in one of our son's 4-H pigs. The boar our sow was bred to was obviously inbred for desirable show traits such as lean, heavy muscling, length of loin, etc. Many abnormalities show up in animals that are closely bred - e.g. mother to son, brother to sister. This is why I tried to encourage the Jacob breeder from Canada to seek outside bloodlines. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010310/ae6d424c/attachment.htm From mcmcc at ucinet.com Sat Mar 10 15:17:39 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] defect? Message-ID: <001501c0a99f$28f03920$60b523d0@oemcomputer> We do have to be careful with BOSe. Selenium is fatal in too high of doses. I am in a selenium deficient area but still use it sparingly. mary -----Original Message----- From: Penelope To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Saturday, March 10, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] defect? >At 07:02 3/10/01 -0800, sbennett wrote: > >>So, last year, I thought maybe this was a genetic defect. Now I'm >>thinking that Itty Bitty was a preemie and breeding ewes as lambs is not >>a particularly good idea. Has anybody else seen this, have any thoughts >>on this? > >Hello Debbie (& List), > We had something simmilar with a couple of our goat kids last year. Our >mutual neighbor advised giving a couple of doses of BoSe, one a day, I >think. And we did see an improvement over the course of a couple of days. >I could find out again -- this reminded me that we probably should have >given our pregnant ewe's BoSe. Oops. We've managed to be preoccupied with >the baby through the entire sheep pregnancy. The baby is what keeps me >from jumping in to the list more often (reaching, grabbing, pulling toward >herself these days -- especially things like my water glass, all over the >key board. Today I have a new keyboard. In a couple of weeks a water >proof layer to go on top of it.) > My spouse thinks that the sheeps hooves are often soft when they are born. > He adds that he thinks the ewe squatting is a good mothering instinct. >Our one ewe who has lambed so far this year squats a bit for her lambs, and >she did last year for her one larger lamb. None of the lambs have shown >any difficiulty reaching a teat without the ewe (Jadzia) squatting. We've >got another ewe due to lamb any day now -- she's had an udder like a dairy >goat since tuesday, so we're just waiting. > > I'm interested in seeing other folks comments too. What's the norm? > >peace >penny > >ps -- how's the Llama? >-- -- >Penelope Jacob, Doula (& John Nanci, Alchemist) pcj@efn.org >Quality horned milk goats & registered Jacob Sheep: Stonering herd & flock. >Year-And-A-Day Farm, Umpqua Valley, Oregon >radical, fundamental, ornery & friendly poly pagan folk > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From humbug7 at worldnet.att.net Sat Mar 10 16:34:05 2001 From: humbug7 at worldnet.att.net (Kathryn Shirley) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] data; defects References: <001c01c0a8f6$bf9666a0$abc11cd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3AAA9DCD.5427220A@worldnet.att.net> Interesting trailer, huh? Well the port vet sure remembered you!!! Told us all about the guy with a van load of sheep...... I must admit, the trip was eventful. We were looking a bit like the Clampetts in Wells, Maine. We were stopped at a light and a real estate person came up to us, handed us her card and said that she wanted to talk to us...... We knew we were home in NC, when we pulled into the first rest stop-- and parked right next to another "interesting trailer". The trailer is interesting, but it is well ventilated (snicker) and tough as nails. But, when it fell out of the ugly tree, it hit every branch on the way down.... Kate Shirley Thomas Simmons wrote: > Kate - > > Ah, yes, Kate-of-the-Interesting-Trailer, right?! LOL! I was surprised > that Marilla singled - she was HUGE - but it looks like my other Killorglem > gals will produce singles as well. I will say this: her ram was the biggest > and strongest newborn lamb I have ever seen! > > thom > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From blotham at yahoo.com Sat Mar 10 20:19:46 2001 From: blotham at yahoo.com (AARON BROWN) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Subject: Photos for you on Kodak PhotoNet online Message-ID: AARON BROWN has some great photos to share with you. They're on the Internet at the Kodak PhotoNet online web site. A complimentary account has been created in your name so that you can view AARON BROWN's photos. Your account has been created with the e-mail address:jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Your temporary PhotoNet password is: yrk2qqja862 To see the photos that AARON BROWN wants to share with you, visit http://york.photonet.com and login with the information provided above. After filling out some basic information, you will be able to view AARON BROWN's photos. For future reference: AARON BROWN hopes you enjoy these photos. They will be available online until Sunday, Apr 8, 2001. You have full access to ordering reprints, enlargements, photo gifts and all the other great services on Kodak PhotoNet online, so have fun trying new ways to use photos! For reference the access code for the roll that has been shared is: YRK2QQX62AMGN2DN After logging into your account, all of your online rolls will appear. You'll have four fun areas to choose from including: VIEW AND SHARE: View your photos in thumbnail size and larger views, share a roll, e-mail select pics, download photos, send a photo postcard, or add a caption SHOP: Buy reprints and photo gifts, buy a roll of space for uploading, or download high res photos PLAY: Take a break and have some fun with your photos. Try morphing a pic or learning about editing your pictures MANAGE: Delete a pic, delete a roll from your account, add more time to a roll, rename a roll, buy a new roll or add a few spaces to an existing roll for uploading, or upload digital photos. Simply select the roll you wish to view, and then click on one of the 4 options presented to you. We're sure you'll love all the great new options available to you. If you should have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact our customer service department at service@yorkphoto.com. Kodak PhotoNet online http://york.photonet.com ------------------- Hello All, Just had this roll of film developed, knowing that the pictures at the end of the roll were of our sheep and our first set of lambs. I wanted to just share the lamb pictures but couldn't sent the pictures with the message. So here is a link to see the entire roll of film. Our cats, me, more cats, sunrise in our little burg and December's winter snow. Excuse the couple of shots that didn't turn out, I hope you enjoy the pictures of the sheep. Abigail Brown Shiloh Farms Petersburg, IN From wolfpen at rabun.net Sun Mar 11 08:50:31 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Electrolyte recipe In-Reply-To: <000a01c0a970$7e7fa620$bb67e2d1@Melanie> Message-ID: <200103111447.JAA12878@mail.rabun.net> Melanie, Here's the recipe: 2 teaspoons common table salt 1 teaspoon baking soda 8 tablespoons crystalline dextrose, honey or white corn syrup (NEVER use cane sugar as it can cause diarrhea) Mix in 1 gallon of water. This is from a book called "Management and Diseases of Dairy Goats." I checked it with my vet and he says it looked good to him. And speaking of recipes, I just tried an excellent recipe for lamb stock. If anyone is interested, I'll post it or send it individually. Linda On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 09:43:31 -0500, Chovhani wrote: >Was it Linda? who kindly posted a home-made electrolyte recipe when I was >having problems with Zoe? I've passed it on to a number of people but now >appear to have lost it. Would you mind posting it again, and also, let me >know where it came from? >Thanks > >Melanie >http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie >http://earthhome.tripod.com > >For the believer no evidence is necessary for the nonbeliever none is >possible > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010311/8c9b9e01/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Sun Mar 11 09:12:25 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs, 1/2 cycles and that ear thing. In-Reply-To: <002101c0a973$119cdd40$24202940@dl1009203> Message-ID: <200103111447.JAA12882@mail.rabun.net> Katrina, With all the defects that have been mentioned on the list this week, I'd say you got lucky just getting the floppy ear! Linda On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:01:00 -0500, dave & katrina wrote: > > Tom and Kate- I swear, whenever something is mentioned on this list, the next day I notice >it in our flock! *smile* One of Pearl's lambs has that ear thing you guys were just talking >about... I posted a picture on our lamb page for a day or so if anyone wants to see it. I >have to re-send the main picture but the words and the floppy-ear picture are on. > http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/lambpage.htm > > Happy Lambing! > Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm > > > www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010311/66aef4b5/attachment.htm From wolfpen at rabun.net Sun Mar 11 09:37:44 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] squatting ewes/ premie? Message-ID: <200103111447.JAA12883@mail.rabun.net> Penny and all, Most of my ewes will squat for the lamb. In fact, if I reach under and tickle their udders, they will also squat. Some don't squat at all. Both types raise healthy fat lambs, so I just consider both types of behaviour as "normal." One of my ewes lambed at 149 days after the last observed breeding. It is possible that there was another breeding that I did not see as I do not use a marking harness. The lamb had little pointy tips on her hooves and walked right down on her rear fetlocks the first day. This lamb was in no way weak. She was up nursing within 10 minutes and doing all the normal lamb bounces and twirls within two hours. Her stance was perfectly normal by two days old. At eight days old she is only slightly smaller than other lambs the same age. A friend told me that the turned up tips on her hooves meant she was a premie. Any thoughts on this? Linda On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:53:34 -0800, Penelope wrote: > My spouse thinks that the sheeps hooves are often soft when they are born. > He adds that he thinks the ewe squatting is a good mothering instinct. >Our one ewe who has lambed so far this year squats a bit for her lambs, and >she did last year for her one larger lamb. None of the lambs have shown >any difficiulty reaching a teat without the ewe (Jadzia) squatting. We've >got another ewe due to lamb any day now -- she's had an udder like a dairy >goat since tuesday, so we're just waiting. > > I'm interested in seeing other folks comments too. What's the norm? > >peace >penny > >ps -- how's the Llama? >-- -- >Penelope Jacob, Doula (& John Nanci, Alchemist) pcj@efn.org >Quality horned milk goats & registered Jacob Sheep: Stonering herd & flock. >Year-And-A-Day Farm, Umpqua Valley, Oregon >radical, fundamental, ornery & friendly poly pagan folk > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-listhttp://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/ja cob-list www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010311/dd070cef/attachment.html From sbennett at teleport.com Sun Mar 11 09:59:04 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] defect? Message-ID: <20010311150735.8F5B853545@pairlist.net> Not just one very small lamb, I've seen three now. Yesterday, after I posted to the list, Baatara (Navaho-Churro ewe lamb who escaped at breeding time and went straight to the Jacob ram), gave birth to twins (not early this time; gestation was 149 days). One 2 pounder and one 6 pounder. It's not a selenium deficiency - the vet has us inject BOSE about 6-8 weeks before lambing each year. Debbie > >>So, last year, I thought maybe this was a genetic defect. Now I'm >>thinking that Itty Bitty was a preemie and breeding ewes as lambs is not >>a particularly good idea. Has anybody else seen this, have any thoughts >>on this? > >Hello Debbie (& List), > We had something simmilar with a couple of our goat kids last year. Our >mutual neighbor advised giving a couple of doses of BoSe, one a day, I >think. And we did see an improvement over the course of a couple of days. snipped Penelope From perfectspot at blueridge.net Sun Mar 11 10:42:09 2001 From: perfectspot at blueridge.net (Cathy Robinson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] squatting ewes/ premie? References: <200103111447.JAA12883@mail.rabun.net> Message-ID: <3AAB9CD0.7E9CB3BE@blueridge.net> Last year we saw the birth (and survival) of our smallest ever set of twins at 3 and 3.5 lbs. from a first time mom. She was squatting for a long time! She is next to lamb here so hope they are bigger this year! On the flip-side, we had twin rams born three days ago to our "sturdiest" and heaviest boned ewe....one of which tipped the scales at 10+ lbs. He is already having to duck for his meals! Cathy Perfect Spot Farm From humbug7 at worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 11 14:41:08 2001 From: humbug7 at worldnet.att.net (Kathryn Shirley) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] squatting ewes/ premie? References: <200103111447.JAA12883@mail.rabun.net> Message-ID: <3AABD4D4.3F94408@worldnet.att.net> My floppy eared lamb also walked on her hind fetlocks. Definitely a preemie. She also wobbled a bit when she walked, but was strong and nursed within 15 minutes. Her legs are fine, the ear cartilage has finished growing and she bounces with the best of them. The only difficulty is that the ear now sticks straight out to the side. I am hoping that it will straighten into the normal "up" position soon. It does give her a devil-may-care look! Kate Shirley, Humbug Farm linda wrote: > Penny and all, > > Most of my ewes will squat for the lamb. In fact, if I reach under > and tickle their udders, they will also squat. Some don't squat at > all. Both types raise healthy fat lambs, so I just consider both > types of behaviour as "normal." > > One of my ewes lambed at 149 days after the last observed breeding. It > is possible that there was another breeding that I did not see as I do > not use a marking harness. The lamb had little pointy tips on her > hooves and walked right down on her rear fetlocks the first day. This > lamb was in no way weak. She was up nursing within 10 minutes and > doing all the normal lamb bounces and twirls within two hours. Her > stance was perfectly normal by two days old. At eight days old she is > only slightly smaller than other lambs the same age. A friend told me > that the turned up tips on her hooves meant she was a premie. Any > thoughts on this? > > Linda > On Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:53:34 -0800, Penelope wrote: > > > My spouse thinks that the sheeps hooves are often soft when they > are born. > > He adds that he thinks the ewe squatting is a good mothering > instinct. > >Our one ewe who has lambed so far this year squats a bit for her > lambs, and > >she did last year for her one larger lamb. None of the lambs have > shown > >any difficiulty reaching a teat without the ewe (Jadzia) squatting. > We've > >got another ewe due to lamb any day now -- she's had an udder like a > dairy > >goat since tuesday, so we're just waiting. > > > > I'm interested in seeing other folks comments too. What's the > norm? > > > >peace > >penny > > > >ps -- how's the Llama? > >-- -- > >Penelope Jacob, Doula (& John Nanci, Alchemist) pcj@efn.org > >Quality horned milk goats & registered Jacob Sheep: Stonering herd & > flock. > >Year-And-A-Day Farm, Umpqua Valley, Oregon > >radical, fundamental, ornery & friendly poly pagan folk > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Jacob-list mailing list > >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > > > > www.PatchworkFibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010311/a6219140/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Sun Mar 11 17:54:40 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:40 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010311.175441.-298989.1.stonecroft235@juno.com> Regarding Jacob lambs with bent ears - one year we had a ewe lamb who was born with her one ear bent downward, giving her a look of dishevelment and untidiness - the other one was fine and as she grew and developed the bent ear eventually totally "repaired" itself and the ears became symmetrical and normal in every way. One year our pygmy goat female delivered twins and one of them was born with both of her ears bent upward, rounding over the top of her head with the tips of the ears meeting - it seemed that perhaps space was at a premium in utero and her ears just assumed the shape of her head. It was absolutely adorable - she looked sorta like a goat Leprachaun - or like a Star Trek goat with Leonard Nimoy ears - and her ears persisted that way for quite a long time. However, by the time she was full grown her ears had finally assumed a more goat-like position and today she looks perfectly normal - our neighbor bought her and was a bit disappointed that the ears became normal as they gave her a one-of-a-kind sort of "other world" look. Sue Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From wolfpen at rabun.net Sun Mar 11 17:27:20 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] squatting ewes/ premie? In-Reply-To: <3AABD4D4.3F94408@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <200103112255.RAA15251@mail.rabun.net> I guess this one may be a premie. Her hooves are solid now and normally formed. They didn't exactly "turn up." It was more as if they were soft and still malleable and you pinched the tips between your fingers. I have a book somewhere that shows fetal lamb development. I don't have the time or energy to look for it now. What exactly would be other signs of a 2 week (or more) premature lamb? Linda who hammered the first nail in the new house today at 12:32 pm! On Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:41:08 -0500, Kathryn Shirley wrote: > My floppy eared lamb also walked on her hind fetlocks. Definitely a preemie. www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010311/5a1f346a/attachment.html From humbug7 at worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 11 19:49:58 2001 From: humbug7 at worldnet.att.net (Kathryn Shirley) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] squatting ewes/ premie? References: <200103112255.RAA15251@mail.rabun.net> Message-ID: <3AAC1D36.CF1717D2@worldnet.att.net> The most obvious signs I have seen are: floppy ears (may affect only one), hooves take longer to "dry up/harden", gait is not even, especially in the back end (tend to crab sidewise when walking), baa is much quieter/softer, an unfocused look to the eyes, and sometimes the eyes don't track. Tracking is when the eyes work together to look at something. If they don't track, one eye could be looking forward and the other to the side--kind of weird looking. In my experience, a lamb that is more than two weeks premature suffers from "dead lamb disease". Kate Shirley, Humbug Farm linda wrote: > I guess this one may be a premie. Her hooves are solid now and > normally formed. They didn't exactly "turn up." It was more as if > they were soft and still malleable and you pinched the tips between > your fingers. > I have a book somewhere that shows fetal lamb development. I don't > have the time or energy to look for it now. What exactly would be > other signs of a 2 week (or more) premature lamb? > > Linda > who hammered the first nail in the new house today at 12:32 pm! > > On Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:41:08 -0500, Kathryn Shirley wrote: > > My floppy eared lamb also walked on her hind fetlocks. Definitely > a preemie. > www.PatchworkFibers.com > Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010311/1a910582/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Sun Mar 11 19:54:39 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010311.201525.-298989.2.stonecroft235@juno.com> Question for those of you with poultry: What do you do when a rooster's spurs become so long they impede walking? We've cut them in the past, and they bleed quite alot - is there a good way to cauterize them? There is one spur on the inside of each leg and they are several inches long. This ole rooster, Jack, has been here for a long time and I don't have the heart (or a good reason) to end his life - but due to the spurs he walks like a drunken sailor!! (My apologies for using the sheep list for a chicken question - my justification is that Jack assists in my parasite control program for the sheep!!) Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From Jacobflock at aol.com Mon Mar 12 13:25:09 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Floppy ear(s) in lambs Message-ID: <86.8052fea.27de6e85@aol.com> Fred Horak here. Floppy ears, in itself, on new borns, is not much to worry about. The genetics of ear presence (no ears), number of "ears" (four), length (pendulous/extremely stubby aural pinna) is a more interesting defect. A floppy ear of normal length will probably pick up with growth. I'd just note it and move on...see if it is "permanent". floppy Fred From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com Tue Mar 13 17:43:45 2001 From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Rooster Spurs Message-ID: <20010313224345.23739.qmail@web902.mail.yahoo.com> Spurs are like toenails on a dog. You don't want to cut far enough to get into the quick. I use a pair of wire cutters and cut about 1/4th to 1/3 of the spurs off blunt. It is also a good idea to do the toenails on a rooster too so they don't cut the hens backs up when mateing. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From carlfosbrink at yahoo.com Tue Mar 13 20:34:26 2001 From: carlfosbrink at yahoo.com (CARL FOSBRINK) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Rooster Spurs Message-ID: <20010314013426.12095.qmail@web902.mail.yahoo.com> I take a pair of wire cutters and cut about 1/4 to 1/3 of the spurs off blunt. Their spurs are like their toenails, they have a quick, so if you don't cut into the quick you won't have any bleeding and the rooster will feel no pain. If you are useing a rooster for breeding or have him penned up where scratching won't keep his toenails worn down it is a good idea to trim the ends of his toenails off also. Again, don't cut so much off that you get into the quick. I have bred, shown and judged poultry for over 40 years so I know more about poultry than Jacobs, but am beginning to build up a nice flock of Jacobs with some nice ewes from Mary Spahr and Luther Hardy and my ram , Sweetgrass Reason, who came from Michigan. Carl. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From iseespots1nc at earthlink.net Tue Mar 13 09:43:46 2001 From: iseespots1nc at earthlink.net (Hansson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] My new EarthLink email address Message-ID: <200103131434.GAA10667@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi. I wanted to let you know that I've switched to EarthLink for my Internet access, and I now have a new email address. So please send email to my new EarthLink email address: iseespots1nc@earthlink.net I don't want to miss any of your messages, so please take a moment to write down my new address and add it to your email address book. My website has not changed: www.iseespots.com. Thanks! Mary Ellen P.S. My old email address was (iseespots@msn.com) ******************************** EarthLink - It's your Internet http://www.earthlink.net/ ******************************** From messen at socket.net Tue Mar 13 22:56:27 2001 From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Auction ad on the web Message-ID: <046c01c0ac3a$c1022dc0$64e1fea9@oemcomputer> I saw the following and was wondering, does anybody know the sheep that are going to be for sale at Lolli's? I do not think I have often seen this many bottle babies at this sale. the Web address is: http://www.lollibros.com/SheepGoatDomestic.htm Mark Essen Famous Acres 6701 County Road 353 Fulton, Mo. 65251 (573)642-0350 messen@socket.net Jacobs 4-Horn Sheep, Pygmy Goats, Pyrenees, Peafowl, Highland Cattle, Yak, Emu, Fallow Deer, Zebu Cattle all living together in the Kingdom of Callaway -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010313/56e77764/attachment.html From Jacobflock at aol.com Wed Mar 14 09:26:16 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Low birth weights Message-ID: <27.12503a4c.27e0d988@aol.com> Fred Horak here. In the December 1999 Journal of the JSC an article detailed records for 21 of 33 ewes and 5 of the 9 rams used for Fall 1998 breedings. The purpose was to test "ease of lambing", document parturition problems and test the "old wive's tale" that the "slant of the croup" was the reason for "ease of lambing". The method and conclusions were reviewed by Texas A&M. Some of the inputs into this Jacob parturition study include height, weight, length, head circumference, and four pelvic measurements for rams and ewes. Rams and ewes were about a grade 3; fingers across the backbone test. The output consisted of detailed birth records of how each lamb was born, time from water to birth, birth to on its feet, feet to nursing, as well as lamb weight, height, length skull diameter and chest diameter. Ewes were flushed and those in small pens were on about 1/3 pound of grain until after breding. Ewes were then returned to pasture and moved back to grain at about eight weeks before lambing...increasing grain to about a pound until lambing...checking to see that all the ewes ate. Measurements (weight, height, length, head and chest circumference, etc) were completed for 36 lambs; 6 singles and 30 multiples. The average weight for the 36 lambs was 7.40 pounds with a standard deviation of .86; the singles averaged 8.26 pounds with a standard deviation of .56; the twins averaged 7.21 pounds with a standard deviation of .79. Ruth, a yearling ewe, had the lowest weight twins and among all 36 lambs studied, the lightest weight lamb. Her twins were 5.75 (lightest weight lamb of 36 lambs) and 7.5 pounds. This year, we only bred 17 ewes. They were all condition 4-5 at the start of breeding. One ewe was horned in the spleen (completely punctured the spleen) and died. The necropsy confirmed the punctured spleen, revealed she had triplets...and abdominal fat. Abdominal fat reduces lamb size; fatter ewes generally have lighter lambs. The lambs born this year, I HAVEN'T RUN THE NUMBERS YET, I suspect are lighter weight. The lighest, out of about 25 lambs, are twins at 3 pounds 12oz and 4 pounds 10 oz; both viable. One of the most probable causes of dystocia is pelvic fat (another is commercial muscling), however, we did not experience any dystocia, perhaps because of the ASSUMED lighter weight. Another cause of light birth weight is ewe diet. Inadequate nutrition inhibits fetal growth not only at breeding (carnucles) but especially during the last six to eight weeks (foetal development). If you had adequate forage (16% protein hay is often just a "story") and grain energy (corn is not a good source of protein but some shepherds just throw more corn thinking it's energy) and keep the ewes in "good"/not heavy weight, the lamb crop should reflect the diet. Soft hooves: The hoof keratin material is soft at birth and hardens in a few days...it all takes time to dry out. I think that hooves appear at about 60 days...so they've been soaking for another 90 days before they get "air" dried and set up. When I get my manicure, my nails get soaked and soften up...afterward they get hard. Fetal development: Gary Anderson (CA "party guy" for 2001) might have some input on fetal development and energy needs; splitting of the cell, genome activation, maternal recognition of pregnancy, start of the placenta, legs at 4-5 weeks, nose and eyes at 7 weeks, hair, teeth, ...and why when it looks like it could pass for a lamb at 130 days does it wait 2 more weeks. The "wive's tale" for when it will be born? It will be born at the new moon, in the middle of the night, on the night you didn't bring the ewes in from the pasture...because it was cold, raining or snowing. That first "wives tale" about slope of croup and "ease of lambing"? Anatomically, the slope of the croup has virtually nothing to do with ease of lambing. The pelvis and its slope has everything to do with motion and gait. Fred From SteffArce at aol.com Wed Mar 14 11:13:36 2001 From: SteffArce at aol.com (SteffArce@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Results of ram lamb vs ewe lamb study Message-ID: Hi all, Regarding ram lambs vs ewe lambs: Survey Results: I looked at the information I received from 5 people on the list on their Jacob's (and other breeds) regarding feed, age of rams, etc.... There are more variables than number of sheep looked at! So I watched questions being asked on the list and wrote Gary Anderson. With his permission I have copied his response to my questions. > -----Original Message----- > From: SteffArce@aol.com [mailto:SteffArce@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 AM > To: GBAnderson@ucdavis.edu > Subject: Questions on Jacob Sheep > > > Dr. Anderson, I have a small flock of Jacob Sheep in Central Oregon. My > questions to you are from a group of people on the Jacob List. We were > interested in study results that may have already been completed. We have > these questions. > > Who determines the sex of the lambs---Ram or Ewe? > Is there an influence on the sex because of the age of the Ram---ram lamb > vs > mature ram? > Is there a tendency for first time bred ewe's to have ram lambs? > I understand that "flushing" will increase the number of eggs available for > fertilization, Is there an influence on the type of feed ie.. could one > flush > using alfalfa instead of grain? > Many on the list are looking for ways to increase number of ewes verses > rams > (: > We are looking for information that shows if you provided 'this' type of > food > with 'this' age group of ewes and rams you will/may get 'this' sex of lambs > and 'this' number of lambs. > Your input, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > I had asked for data from different members only to find multiple variables > from each. No place to start with a constant. > Thank you for your time, > Stephanie Arceneaux > SteffArce@aol.com Subj: RE: Questions on Jacob Sheep Date: 3/9/01 3:57:58 PM Pacific Standard Time From:? ? GBAnderson@UCDavis.Edu (Anderson, Gary B.) To:? ? SteffArce@aol.com ('SteffArce@aol.com') The sex is determined by the ram, or more correctly the fertilizing sperm cell.? Each sperm cell carries either an X chromosome or a Y chromosome.? Each egg carries only a single X chromosome.? If the egg is fertilized by an X-bearing sperm cell, producing an XX embryo, the lamb will be female.? If the egg is fertilized by a Y-bearing sperm cell, producing an XY embryo, the lamb will be male. ? Theoretically, 50% of a ram's sperm cells carry an X chromosome and 50% carry a Y chromosome; thus, 50% of a ram's lambs should be ewe lambs and 50% ram lambs.? When a breeder say, "My ram produced 9 ram lambs in a row!"? it's most likely by random chance and not anything special about the ram.? The 50% male/female ratio can appear to be off when dealing with a relatively small number of lambs, but were the same ram to sire, for example, 100 lambs, the ratio is likely to be 50%/50%. ? In cattle where AI (artificial insemination) bulls can sire tens of thousands of calves, individuals are known in which the sex ratio is, for example, 48%/52%, and because the numbers of calves is so large, the deviation from the expected 50%/50% ratio can be 'statistically significant,' which is a scientist's way of determining if something is 'real' or just occurring by chance.? (The 9 ram lambs in a row is probably just by chance and not a real, biological phenomenon.)? The slight deviation is probably due to greater embryonic mortality (during pregnancy) in one sex versus the other, most likely do to a genetic defect. ? Rarely, and I mean RARELY, a male (for example, a ram) is found that truly has a large deviation from a 50/50 ratio of offspring sex (much more rarely than you'd expect based on anecdotes passed among breeders).? The most logical explanation is that the ram carries a defective gene that is killing embryos/fetuses of one sex or the other, most likely the males so that predominantly females survive to term. ? Sex of lambs is not influenced by the age of the ram.? Nor is there an effect of first-time lambing ewes to have one sex or the other. ? Flushing increases the number of eggs ovulated.? With flushing?ewes are more likely to ovulate two versus one egg compared with had the ewes not been flushed; thus, a breeder is more likely to get twins than with not flushing, and the breeder will get MORE EWE LAMBS (by virtue of getting more lambs) but NOT more ewe lambs relative to ram lambs.? There's no way to feed a ewe (or ram) to alter the sex ratio. ? There are two, and only two, scientifically proven ways to alter the sex ratio.? Both require treating semen to separate the X- and Y-bearing spermatozoa, and thus the procedures require AI or in vitro fertilization (IVF).? One of the two methods seems to work somewhat in humans (and is used in some IVF clinics) but hasn't worked in other animals.? The other one was developed at USDA in Beltsville, MD and is being commercialized by a company associated with Colorado State University.? The latter is being tested primarily in cattle, and is a ways off from practical use (although it does work in small-scale projects). ? I hope that I've answered your questions.? Please let me know if something is unclear. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010314/b7c30926/attachment.htm From maplelanehmstd at dialpoint.net Wed Mar 14 06:09:02 2001 From: maplelanehmstd at dialpoint.net (Kelly Foster) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] sick lambs--any suggestions? Message-ID: <003501c0ac77$2e3fe940$5d2bbdd8@foster> I am sorry about not getting back to you sooner. A friend had that problem with a couple of her lambs that had to be bottle fed. Turned out they had not gotten enough colostrum and had gotten a joint infection. They were put on antibiotics and are now fine. Hope this helps. Kelly Foster Maple Lane Homestead Reg. Jacob Sheep, German Angora Rabbits and Colored Crosses -----Original Message----- From: melody To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:09 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] sick lambs--any suggestions? . One of my sister's yearling ewes had twins last Thursday, and wouldn't take them. After holding the ewe so they could get the colostrum through the first day, she has been bottle feeding with Purina milk replacer. They have been doing well, but this morning began to act as though they were in pain, just standing around humped up. They acted as though their hind legs are weak or painful, too. Now their front legs are showing the same weakness. Any ideas what this could be, or what to do? Melody at CritterLand Redmond OR From SteffArce at aol.com Wed Mar 14 21:20:33 2001 From: SteffArce at aol.com (SteffArce@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Ram lamb vs ewe lamb study Message-ID: <81.82cd009.27e180f1@aol.com> Hi all, Regarding the ram lamb vs ewe lamb study/survey: There was as many variable as sheep in the information I received from 5 people from the list. I contacted Dr. Gary Anderson with questions. With his permission I have copied his response to my questions. > -----Original Message----- > From: SteffArce@aol.com [mailto:SteffArce@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 7:40 AM > To: GBAnderson@ucdavis.edu > Subject: Questions on Jacob Sheep > > > Dr. Anderson, I have a small flock of Jacob Sheep in Central Oregon. My > questions to you are from a group of people on the Jacob List. We were > interested in study results that may have already been completed. We have > these questions. > > Who determines the sex of the lambs---Ram or Ewe? > Is there an influence on the sex because of the age of the Ram---ram lamb > vs > mature ram? > Is there a tendency for first time bred ewe's to have ram lambs? > I understand that "flushing" will increase the number of eggs available for > fertilization, Is there an influence on the type of feed ie.. could one > flush > using alfalfa instead of grain? > Many on the list are looking for ways to increase number of ewes verses > rams > (: > We are looking for information that shows if you provided 'this' type of > food > with 'this' age group of ewes and rams you will/may get 'this' sex of lambs > and 'this' number of lambs. > Your input, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > I had asked for data from different members only to find multiple variables > from each. No place to start with a constant. > > Thank you for your time, > Stephanie Arceneaux > SteffArce@aol.com The sex is determined by the ram, or more correctly the fertilizing sperm cell.? Each sperm cell carries either an X chromosome or a Y chromosome.? Each egg carries only a single X chromosome.? If the egg is fertilized by an X-bearing sperm cell, producing an XX embryo, the lamb will be female.? If the egg is fertilized by a Y-bearing sperm cell, producing an XY embryo, the lamb will be male. ? Theoretically, 50% of a ram's sperm cells carry an X chromosome and 50% carry a Y chromosome; thus, 50% of a ram's lambs should be ewe lambs and 50% ram lambs.? When a breeder say, "My ram produced 9 ram lambs in a row!"? it's most likely by random chance and not anything special about the ram.? The 50% male/female ratio can appear to be off when dealing with a relatively small number of lambs, but were the same ram to sire, for example, 100 lambs, the ratio is likely to be 50%/50%. ? In cattle where AI (artificial insemination) bulls can sire tens of thousands of calves, individuals are known in which the sex ratio is, for example, 48%/52%, and because the numbers of calves is so large, the deviation from the expected 50%/50% ratio can be 'statistically significant,' which is a scientist's way of determining if something is 'real' or just occurring by chance.? (The 9 ram lambs in a row is probably just by chance and not a real, biological phenomenon.)? The slight deviation is probably due to greater embryonic mortality (during pregnancy) in one sex versus the other, most likely do to a genetic defect. ? Rarely, and I mean RARELY, a male (for example, a ram) is found that truly has a large deviation from a 50/50 ratio of offspring sex (much more rarely than you'd expect based on anecdotes passed among breeders).? The most logical explanation is that the ram carries a defective gene that is killing embryos/fetuses of one sex or the other, most likely the males so that predominantly females survive to term. ? Sex of lambs is not influenced by the age of the ram.? Nor is there an effect of first-time lambing ewes to have one sex or the other. ? Flushing increases the number of eggs ovulated.? With flushing?ewes are more likely to ovulate two versus one egg compared with had the ewes not been flushed; thus, a breeder is more likely to get twins than with not flushing, and the breeder will get MORE EWE LAMBS (by virtue of getting more lambs) but NOT more ewe lambs relative to ram lambs.? There's no way to feed a ewe (or ram) to alter the sex ratio. ? There are two, and only two, scientifically proven ways to alter the sex ratio.? Both require treating semen to separate the X- and Y-bearing spermatozoa, and thus the procedures require AI or in vitro fertilization (IVF).? One of the two methods seems to work somewhat in humans (and is used in some IVF clinics) but hasn't worked in other animals.? The other one was developed at USDA in Beltsville, MD and is being commercialized by a company associated with Colorado State University.? The latter is being tested primarily in cattle, and is a ways off from practical use (although it does work in small-scale projects). ? I hope that I've answered your questions.? Please let me know if something is unclear. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010314/2c567dc6/attachment.html From pavel314 at home.com Wed Mar 14 21:44:57 2001 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Vacuum Packed Wool Message-ID: <3AB02CA9.754C05D1@home.com> Phebe wanted to send 25 pounds of wool off to the mill for processing. That much wool takes up a lot of volume, three large plastic bags full. It looked like we'd have to pack it into several boxes, which would multiply the shipping costs. Figuring that most of the volume was air, not wool, we tried to compact it by sucking the air out of the bags. We hooked up the vacuum cleaner, put the hose into the top part of the bag, held the bag tight around it and pulled the air out, shrinking the plastic bags to about a third of their original volume. They all fit into one reasonably sized box. I'm sure that we're not the first people to think of this, but I thought I'd share it with my fiber lists. Action photographs of the whole process are posted to our website. We're worried about this foot-and-mouth disease spreading. We're within an hour or so drive of three major international airports; I hope they're fumigating the passengers from Europe. When I went to New Zealand about ten years ago, they fumigated the cabin before they let us get off. Paul Intihar Rainbow Farm Joppa, Maryland Website: http://members.home/net/rbfarm/ From mwilliams2 at worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 14 22:58:53 2001 From: mwilliams2 at worldnet.att.net (Mark Williams) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] List problems Message-ID: <005701c0ad04$53d7cd20$5289520c@williams> Please bear with me. I was doing some list maintenance and somehow kicked it into "moderated list mode". I can't seem to figure out how to get it switched back. Believe me, this is NOT what I want the list to be doing. I'll keep working on it. In the mean time, please be patient - there may be a delay between when you send your posts and when they appear. Sorry, - Mark Williams Jacob List Administrator From lambfarm at sover.net Thu Mar 15 07:02:32 2001 From: lambfarm at sover.net (Betty Berlenbach) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ram ratios Message-ID: <001601c0ad47$fde4fde0$8975c6d1@lambfarm> Steph and Gary, On the other hand, I believe that Orthodox Jews sire more males than females, which I have read is because of their sexual purity laws, is due to the fact that they cannot have sex with their wives until a week after their menses, which means generally the day of ovulation. My understanding is that the male sperm swim faster, the female last longer, so WHEN the coitus occurs might well effect gender of progeny. Don't know if that is true with rams as well as humjans. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010315/61d0ffed/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Thu Mar 15 17:15:25 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Yippee, Part III Message-ID: <012301c0ad9d$70032960$646fe7ce@oemcomputer> Well, came home to another mid-day birth - Anne-Shirley, the second of my PEI girls to lamb, gave me twins today-one boy, one girl. Well, if the First PEI gal gave me the BIGGEST lamb I've ever seen, these two lambs have got to be the tiniest! They seem strong though, and birth was 148 days after observed breeding, so it was a full gestation. And as a bonus, Blizzard's ear decided to straighten out today, too :-) thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010315/9b72c221/attachment.html From mcmcc at ucinet.com Thu Mar 15 13:27:38 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ram ratios Message-ID: <001001c0ad7d$9ea1e060$8db523d0@oemcomputer> Do individual ewes produce more ewes than rams? I know that genetically they are not the determiners, but if the day of breeding within the cycle is relavent, which I believe it is, there may be enough indivivual difference in the ewes receptiveness to affect the outcome. mary -----Original Message----- From: Betty Berlenbach To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:10 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] ram ratios Steph and Gary, On the other hand, I believe that Orthodox Jews sire more males than females, which I have read is because of their sexual purity laws, is due to the fact that they cannot have sex with their wives until a week after their menses, which means generally the day of ovulation. My understanding is that the male sperm swim faster, the female last longer, so WHEN the coitus occurs might well effect gender of progeny. Don't know if that is true with rams as well as humjans. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010315/df82866f/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Thu Mar 15 16:44:41 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ram/ewe ratio Message-ID: <20010315.164450.-66001.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> I think I remember Wayne VanValkenburg discussing the possibility of manipulating gender outcomes by attempting to change the vaginal pH of the ewe - and thus creating an environment more desirable for the female generating sperm. Are you out there Wayne? I think it had something to do with feeding the ewes pine needles to create an acidic pH - am I remembering this correctly? (I can't imagine my girls eating pine needles - so maybe my memory is failing here & hopefully Wayne can help us out.) Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 16 06:33:44 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Yippee, Part III Message-ID: <003101c0ae0c$f6987100$34ec61cc@oemcomputer> Today Dave came home from a busy day tagging and moving new lambs and mothers, only to go back to our barn to welcome the newest Jacobs. His comment "Wow, I've been with a lot of lambs lately." was the understatement of the year. *smile* Katrina - I send a Virtual Warm Bath and a Hot Toddy to Dave! Now does he have to shear all these guys next spring, too?! thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010316/8b64f3db/attachment.html From stonecroft235 at juno.com Thu Mar 15 21:43:01 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010315.214303.-522021.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> Thom What is your secret for mid-day births? Do you grain at a certain time to try to influence lambing time? Or are you just plain lucky???? Our girls always lamb in the dark of night, and if I get up every 2 hrs. to check, they still manage to pull it off when I'm not there!!! They are equally discreet about breeding - they don't like an audience - the ram chases them around but the ewes don't stand until they are sure no human eyes will see!! Sue Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From oberlef at desupernet.net Thu Mar 15 18:33:37 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Yippee, Part III References: <012301c0ad9d$70032960$646fe7ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000201c0addc$bd55c8a0$93202940@dl1009203> Thom and list- I noticed our lamb's ear staightened out a few days after birth, so maybe they just get scrunched inside. Lambs are pouring in around here. Count is at 75 over at the other farm and 6 Jacob lambs (4E 2R) here. Today Dave came home from a busy day tagging and moving new lambs and mothers, only to go back to our barn to welcome the newest Jacobs. His comment "Wow, I've been with a lot of lambs lately." was the understatement of the year. *smile* Isn't spring fun? Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/lambpage.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Simmons To: jacob-list Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 5:15 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] Yippee, Part III Well, came home to another mid-day birth - Anne-Shirley, the second of my PEI girls to lamb, gave me twins today-one boy, one girl. Well, if the First PEI gal gave me the BIGGEST lamb I've ever seen, these two lambs have got to be the tiniest! They seem strong though, and birth was 148 days after observed breeding, so it was a full gestation. And as a bonus, Blizzard's ear decided to straighten out today, too :-) thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010315/983cd913/attachment.htm From mcmcc at ucinet.com Fri Mar 16 02:36:45 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ram/ewe ratio Message-ID: <000c01c0adeb$dbcc6820$47b523d0@oemcomputer> Around here pineneedles are said to cause abortion in pregnant cows. True? Must be powerful stuff affecting the reproductive climate. mary -----Original Message----- From: stonecroft235@juno.com To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:58 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] ram/ewe ratio >I think I remember Wayne VanValkenburg discussing the possibility of >manipulating gender outcomes by attempting to change the vaginal pH of >the ewe - and thus creating an environment more desirable for the female >generating sperm. Are you out there Wayne? I think it had something to >do with feeding the ewes pine needles to create an acidic pH - am I >remembering this correctly? (I can't imagine my girls eating pine >needles - so maybe my memory is failing here & hopefully Wayne can help >us out.) > >Sue Martin >Stonecroft >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From sbennett at teleport.com Fri Mar 16 09:52:25 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] foot and mouth disease Message-ID: <20010316145753.9833C535A5@pairlist.net> Does anyone have any specifics on this disease? The news stories I'm hearing are general and contradictory. I tried looking it up on the net and didn't get any more real information. I'm curious because we do have a disease here in the US called hoof-and-mouth disease (despite what I just heard on the news-no reported cases here since 1927), a virus that lives in the soil and causes sores in and around the mouth in livestock and IS transferable to humans, but it's not fatal. A kin to getting the chicken pox (I got it many years ago after a camping trip with horses). My goat herd contracted it a couple years ago and all survived. The Jacobs didn't get it. My older son that helps with the livestock, got it. So, is this a different or mutated form of the virus and deadly to the livestock, or is everybody freaking out over nothing? Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre >We're worried about this foot-and-mouth disease spreading. We're within >an hour or so drive of three major international airports; I hope >they're fumigating the passengers from Europe. When I went to New >Zealand about ten years ago, they fumigated the cabin before they let us >get off. > >Paul Intihar >Rainbow Farm From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 16 10:06:42 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <00d601c0ae2a$b68060a0$34ec61cc@oemcomputer> -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Simmons To: stonecroft235@juno.com Date: Friday, March 16, 2001 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] (no subject) >Sue - > >Gee, I;d love to say I have this all figured out to a science, but it's all >luck of the draw ;-) > >During breeding, because we are a Large (6 kids) homeschooling family, we >have a darn-near-all day vigil going on to report "breeding events." Our >pastures are very hilly, and the sheep often do *not* see us around the rock >outcroppings even when we're quite close. > >As for food: During gestation, the sheep have non-stop 24-hour access to >hay, which I store around the inside walls of the barn and secure with >baling twine so nothing falls: constant hay, and insulation to boot. They >get their grain rations once every other day, between 4:00pm and 5:00 pm. >If this has anything to do with lambing time, it's due to the whim of my >scheduling convenience, not any particular plan! > >thom > From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 16 10:09:23 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] foot and mouth disease Message-ID: <00e701c0ae2b$165b8fe0$34ec61cc@oemcomputer> > >I'm curious because we do have a disease here in the US called >hoof-and-mouth disease (despite what I just heard on the news-no reported >cases here since 1927 Debbie - I'd like to know more, too.....I heard one report that said there was a US outbreak of Foot-and-Mouth in the 1920's, which would make me think it was the same as what we all used to call Hoof-and-Mouth......but some sources are saying humans can contract it, and others say no... ??????????????? thom From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Fri Mar 16 11:30:07 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] foot & mouth disease Message-ID: <001d01c0ae36$60a580a0$c296453f@cyrix> There was an article in Farm Week magazine (picturing a flock of Jacob sheep and crossbreds near Halwill, England) about foot and mouth disease. The flock was to be destroyed after a vet inspection. Testing done in France showed "there was a very strong suspicion of foot and mouth disease from sheep imported from Britain. If foot and mouth disease is confirmed in France, it would be the first case where it has spread from the U.K. to the European continent. Sixy-nine outbreaks were reported in Britain and northern Ireland and about 45,000 sheep, cows and pigs have been destroyed. 8,000 more animals are to be destroyed soon. There was an outbreak inside Dartmoor Natl. Park in England which makes them think that wildlife could spread the disease to other livestock. Hiking and horseback riding have been restricted on the moor where cattle and sheep graze. France began killing 50,000 sheep imported from Britain as a precaution." This is really frightening! I have not heard of any cases here in the U.S. and hope that is something that can't happen here. Does anyone know when the last case of foot (hoof) and mouth disease in the U. S. was reported? Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010316/c7f2594d/attachment.html From sbennett at teleport.com Fri Mar 16 10:42:01 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010316180637.C211353551@pairlist.net> I put out hay and grain about 8:30 am and hay again at 4:30pm. ALL of the births this year have been daytime births. I check my ewes at 7:15am (after I drive the kids to the school bus). Only missed 1 birth - she was cleaning twins at 7:15. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre >What is your secret for mid-day births? Do you grain at a certain time >to try to influence lambing time? Or are you just plain lucky???? Our >girls always lamb in the dark of night, and if I get up every 2 hrs. to >check, they still manage to pull it off when I'm not there!!! They are >equally discreet about breeding - they don't like an audience - the ram >chases them around but the ewes don't stand until they are sure no human >eyes will see!! > >Sue >Stonecroft From sbennett at teleport.com Fri Mar 16 10:29:38 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] ram/ewe ratio Message-ID: <20010316181347.6BEC553542@pairlist.net> I've heard this also. I heard you can add vinegar to the ewes water during flushing and breeding to produce more ewe lambs. Keep forgetting to try it, though. My Jacobs think fir needles are a treat. They ate lots of branches while we were cutting fire wood last Fall. Is that why they've had 12 ewe lambs and only 4 ram lambs this year? *grin* Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre >I think I remember Wayne VanValkenburg discussing the possibility of >manipulating gender outcomes by attempting to change the vaginal pH of >the ewe - and thus creating an environment more desirable for the female >generating sperm. Are you out there Wayne? I think it had something to >do with feeding the ewes pine needles to create an acidic pH - am I >remembering this correctly? (I can't imagine my girls eating pine >needles - so maybe my memory is failing here & hopefully Wayne can help >us out.) > >Sue Martin >Stonecroft From Jacobflock at aol.com Fri Mar 16 13:21:11 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot and Mouth/Scrapie Message-ID: <30.11e1995b.27e3b397@aol.com> Fred here. For an overview you might check out www.aphis.usda.gov Foot and mouth and scrapie are different; the effect on humans is different. Both are highly communicable and commercialy devastating. The aphis site describes the FMD symptoms. This is not a good time to be moving livestock around without taking extra precautions if you don't have to. Two months(?) ago, the TX Ag Dept did a practice drill for an outbreak of FMD which is "discovered" in Brownsville, TX at a cattle auction barn. They traced only the cattle and trucks out of the barn...and in three days it is spead in TX and five other states. Focusing on TX, the cost was estimated to be $50 million per county. Fred From locohack at sunlink.net Fri Mar 16 15:20:53 2001 From: locohack at sunlink.net (Lonny Hackenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] My own survey Message-ID: <4120013516202053890@sunlink.net> Hello All, I am wondering if you would be interested in satisfying my own interests as to things like: What percentage of your flocks are Registered? With which Registry? What is an example of the price you sell your lambs for, be specific as to: horns, sex, registerd stock, color ratio, etc. What you use as guidelines to determine the cost. Are you in a situation that you aren't building your flock any more, if so where do you go with your lambs? I am just trying to see if I am within the guidelines of other people. Please send them to my own e-mail address and all information will go no farther. Sincerely, Connie Hackenburg Jacob Sheep, Tennessee Fainting Goats, Arabian Horses, Golden Retrievers --- Lonny Hackenburg --- locohack@sunlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010316/e7e852a4/attachment.htm From sunbriar at juno.com Fri Mar 16 22:07:59 2001 From: sunbriar at juno.com (sunbriar@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] diseases Message-ID: <20010316.221217.-384009.18.sunbriar@juno.com> HI, I think theres some confusion between a serious disease Foot and Mouth and a lesser virus that causes blisters on the lips namely soremouth. My sheep have been infected with soremouth, they had an outbreak about 3-4 years ago, blisters on the lips, it went away on its own untreated, cause no problems and now they should be immune until a few years when another batch of lambs or a new animal might break out again. Soremouth is contagious to some people and is called ORF. I have never gotten it even though handling infected sheep with no gloves so I guess Im immune. I think Ill read up on FMD and see what my college books say about it. Kathy From benedict at snet.net Sat Mar 17 06:48:29 2001 From: benedict at snet.net (George L.Benedict) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: Fw: [Jacob-list] Foot and Mouth/Scrapie Message-ID: <038e01c0aed8$32400800$dedefc40@hppav> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George L.Benedict" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Foot and Mouth/Scrapie > Fellow Jacob Breeders, > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/uk/2001/foot_and_mouth/default.stm > > http://www.maff.gov.uk/ > > These two sites are very current and accurate with regard to the FMD crisis. > Many of us in the Shetland Group have written letters to MAFF, various > MOP's, and even the Prince of Wales to encourage special handling of rare > breeds that may be targeted for slaughter. Many flocks are now being > earmarked for destruction, not because they have tested positive for FMD but > simply because they are within a 3 km radius of confirmed cases. We believe > this wholesale slaughter of negative tested animals could render a severe > blow to the gene pool of many rare breeds. Please take a look at the sites > if you are so inclined and make your feelings known. > > Thank you, > George and Debbie Benedict > > Here are two email addresses to get you started: > SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE RURAL AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT > Penland House > 47 Robb's Loan > Edinburgh EH14 1TW > Tel: 0131 244 8270 > Fax: 0131 244 8274 > > Email: h.q.edinburgh@vfis.maff.gsi.gov.uk > > Animal Health Office, Russell House, King Street, Ayr KA8 0BE > > Tel: 01292 268525 > Night line: 01292 268525 > Fax: 01292 611724 > > Email: a.h.o.ayr@vfis.maff.gsi.gov.uk > > > From stonecroft235 at juno.com Sat Mar 17 09:19:50 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010317.091952.-359409.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> This morning I again experienced the wonder/excitement of lambs - Anna, our Fieldwood matriarch, gave birth to twins - 9.25 lb. ram and an 8.75 lb. ewe. I had the ewes in the barn last night due to rain - I suspected Anna would lamb and got up at 3 a.m. to check but nothing had happened. At 6:30 I checked and she had delivered the ram and Chloe,a 3 year old who appears ready to deliver soon, was convinced the lamb was hers. I had to manhandle her away from the lamb as I jugged Anna and the little one - and Chloe is devastated.....she is still bawling and quite upset. It appears that Chloe wants a lambie without all the hassle/pain of labor and delivery!!! Mama and babies are doing fine - daddy is Jones Roarke purchased from Bullthistle Farm last summer. I LOVE BABY LAMBS!!!! Sue Martin aka "Lambie Granny" Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From snielsen at orednet.org Sat Mar 17 12:33:54 2001 From: snielsen at orednet.org (Susan L. Nielsen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot and Mouth Disease (fwd) Message-ID: I realize this is a long post, and somewhat off-focus for sheep (it came to me through the camelid health list, which is not a discussion list but an informational one), but it contains a good overview of the disease and how it affects all animals. It cleared up some of my questions, so I think it might be useful here. I have not edited. Susan -- Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops |"...Gently down the Beavercreek, OR, USA |stream..." snielsen@orednet.org | -- Anon. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:18:33 -0500 From: David Anderson To: camelidmed@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Foot and Mouth Disease FOOT AND MOUTH DISEASE: ARE LLAMAS AND ALPACAS AT RISK? David E Anderson, DVM, MS, Diplomate ACVS Associate Professor, Ohio State University Based on the inquiries I have gotten over the past few weeks, I feel it would be timely to mention a few words about the current scare in Europe with Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD). As many of you know, I have been preaching biosecurity as an issue for the future for the industry. You have only to talk to the llama and alpaca owners in the United Kingdom to see how this can effect you whether you like it or not! What is it? FMD is a viral infection of cloven-footed animals (virus is family Picronaviridae, genus Aphthovirus, 7 serotypes: A, O, C, SAT1, SAT2, SAT3, ASIA1, and at least 60 subtypes - a very adaptable virus!). It most seriously effects cattle but swine, sheep, and goats can be severely effected at times. The virus does not appear to infect horses or people but there is a concern that any animal may act to spread the infection. The plethora of serotypes and subtypes makes effective vaccination extremely difficult because little cross-protection exists between serotypes. This is one reason why slaughter, where practical, has been used to control and eradicate the disease. People do not appear to be susceptible to the disease unless severely immunocompromised. Where is it? FMD is enzootic to Africa, Europe, Asia, Japan, Philippines, and South America. The spread of FMD is a critical concern to countries that do not have it (e.g. North America, Australia, and New Zealand). A good example of why FMD vigilance is critical: FMD was introduced to Canada in the baggage of a European immigrant. Britain suffered a massive outbreak in 1967-68 possibly as a result of feeding infected Argentine lamb to swine. That outbreak was controlled and the disease eradicated as was a smaller outbreak in 1980. The British survived that outbreak, you can be sure they will survive this one! The last reported case in the USA was in 1929. Australia and New Zealand have never had a case of FMD. FMD was eradicated from Mexico in 1954. Thus, all of North America is currently free of FMD. Apparently the Darien Gap (between Columbia and Panama) and prevented northern spread of diseased cattle from South America. What does it do? FMD is most severe in cattle and causes fever and vesicles in the mouth and on the feet. These cause lameness and decreased feed intake because of pain. The virus takes from 1 to 7 days from the time of infection to the development of clinical signs. At this time, high fever (104-106 F), low milk production, poor appetite, and depression are noted. Excessive salivation is present and vesicles (fluid filled pockets) are noted on the buccal mucosa, dental pad, and tongue. The vesicles rupture within 24 hours leaving a painful lesion. Vesicles also occur around the coronary band causing lameness. As vesicles heal, animals return to eating over several days, but may take up to 6 months to fully recover. Occasionally, the heart muscle is damaged and acute deaths ensue. Diarrhea, sometimes including blood may be seen. In sheep, goats and swine, the disease is usually much less severe. How deadly is it? FMD rapidly spreads within a herd and essentially 100% of susceptible animals succumb to the disease. FMD is not considered a particularly lethal disease. Death rates rarely exceed 2% in adults and 20 % in young stock. There have been outbreaks with up to 50% mortality. However, prolonged convalescence causes severe losses in production and health, cripples animal industries, and severely inhibits travel and tourism. Where does it come from? There are a variety of species that allow the virus to persist or serve to spread the infection. Some include elephants, capybara, hedgehogs, coypu, rodents, birds, and wild ruminants (Roe deer, muntjac, sika deer, fallow and red deer, water buffalo). These animals may not show clinical signs, but may harbor the virus to allow later spread of the infection to susceptible species. These species are not likely to play a major role in transmission because of lack of contact with susceptible species. Sheep may carry the virus for up to 5 months. African buffalo may harbor the virus for up to 28 months! Goats may also serve as carriers of the disease. One study in Kenya showed that goats served a minor role in transmission to cattle and that sheep were not significant carriers. In other outbreaks, sheep meat imported from infected areas appear to have been the origin of infection. How is it spread? The virus may be spread by inhalation or ingestion. Initial outbreaks are most commonly caused by ingestion (e.g. infected meat), but rapid spread within a herd is likely via inhalation (airborne virus). Wind and humidity appear to increased windborne spread. Virus spread has been estimated to be as far as 62 miles (100 kilometers)! Up to 50 % of infected animals may remain as carriers of the disease for at least 6 months. Virus could be recovered from nasal secretion of PEOPLE for up to 28 hours after working with infected cattle. In England, one estimate of how the disease was spread included birds (16%), meat products in pig food (40%), meat and bones (7%), unknown (7%), and obscure (28%). Can we kill the virus? FMD is a very stable virus. It can survive up to 1 year in the environment, 10 to 12 weeks on clothing and feed, and 30 days on hair! Sunlight, boiling, and autoclaving rapidly destroy the virus. Most disinfectants and meat packing industry techniques do not destroy the virus. If you travel in an area that has FMD, you should use disposable shoes and clothing (e.g. coveralls), shower extensively after the visit and before traveling, and preferably stay away from any farm for at least 30 days. The best bet is to stay clear of infected areas during active outbreaks of disease. Do animals become immune? Cattle mount an effective immune response to FMD that lasts up to 4 years. Swine immunity persists for only 7 to 8 months. Immunity is relatively specific to the serotype involved in the exposure. New outbreaks with different serotypes can occur at any time. How is it diagnosed? There are multiple tests that have been used including tissue culture, virus neutralization, compliment fixation tests, experimental infection, and ELISA tests. A government-approved laboratory must perform these. FMD is a federally reportable disease in the USA. Is there a vaccine? Yes, but success of vaccination programs has been highly variable because of the multitude of serotypes and subtypes. The most common types are killed virus trivalent forms. Vaccination in the USA is not permitted. Suspected cases of FMD are required to be reported to federal authorities for investigation and immediate responses to control spread. Are llamas and alpacas at risk? Unfortunately, the answer is both yes and no. Yes, llamas and alpacas have been infected with FMD. No they do not appear to be very susceptible to it. FMD infection in alpacas in Peru was confirmed in the 1970's. FMD risk in llamas and alpacas was researched carefully in Peru, the USA, and Argentina. Routes of infection included tongue scarification, intramuscular injection, intradermal injection, intravenous injection, and cohabitation. Llamas and alpacas appear to be very resistant of infection by natural exposure (cohabitation) but can and do succumb to infection when any of the other exposure methods were used. Infected llamas and alpacas developed high fever (104 F), were anorectic, had damage to the footpads, and became recumbent. Virus did not persist in any camelids beyond 14 days after infection. This is one of the diseases that make importation difficult with a lengthy quarantine period. Certainly, the risk of llamas or alpacas becoming infected seems extremely low. David E Anderson, DVM, MS Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Surgeons Associate Professor of Surgery, Food Animal 601 Vernon L Tharp Street College of Veterinary Medicine The Ohio State University Columbus, Ohio 43210 Anderson.670@osu.edu Phone: 614-292-6661 Fax: 614-292-3530 VISIT OUR WEB-SITES: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/docs/ClinSci/bovine/index.htm http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/docs/ClinSci/camelid/index.html From blotham at yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 13:09:18 2001 From: blotham at yahoo.com (Abigail Brown) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: What is your secret for mid-day births? In-Reply-To: <20010315.214303.-522021.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> Message-ID: <20010317180918.27114.qmail@web703.mail.yahoo.com> Sue and All, I hay in the morning and grain in the evening. My first birth this year was at 5:30pm and the second was mid day sometime. And like you I have never been able to observe actual breeding, the ram does a lot of chasing but ewes never stop while anyone is watching. Abigail Brown Shiloh Farms Indiana ================== --- stonecroft235@juno.com wrote: > Thom > > What is your secret for mid-day births? Do you > grain at a certain time > to try to influence lambing time? Or are you just > plain lucky???? Our > girls always lamb in the dark of night, and if I get > up every 2 hrs. to > check, they still manage to pull it off when I'm not > there!!! They are > equally discreet about breeding - they don't like an > audience - the ram > chases them around but the ewes don't stand until > they are sure no human > eyes will see!! > > Sue > Stonecroft > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 17 13:09:52 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: What is your secret for mid-day births? In-Reply-To: <20010317180918.27114.qmail@web703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200103171818.NAA31604@mail.rabun.net> As soon as I am feeding 1/2 lb grain/ewe/day (which I mix with alfalfa pellets) I start feeding twice a day. Hay available free choice. It is very rare here for a Jacob to lamb in the night. In fact, I can't remember that one ever did but I'm sure one must have sometime. The meat sheep crossbreds I started with would lamb at all hours. Maybe the Jacobs are just more considerate. Linda www.PatchworkFibers.com Registered Jacob Sheep -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010317/3ef00b12/attachment.html From creagchild at monad.net Sat Mar 17 14:39:41 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot and Mouth/Scrapie Message-ID: <007301c0af1a$037e6740$8f6ee7ce@oemcomputer> >> Many of us in the Shetland Group have written letters to MAFF, various >> MOP's, and even the Prince of Wales to encourage special handling of rare >> breeds that may be targeted for slaughter. Many flocks are now being >> earmarked for destruction, not because they have tested positive for FMD >but simply because they are within a 3 km radius of confirmed cases. We >believe this wholesale slaughter of negative tested animals could render a severe >> blow to the gene pool of many rare breeds George, that's a great idea. For another address, here is the Opposition Party: John Swinney, MP, National Convenor Scottish Nationalist Party 107 McDonald Road Edinburgh, Scotland EH7 4NW thom From GBAnderson at UCDavis.Edu Sat Mar 17 17:11:08 2001 From: GBAnderson at UCDavis.Edu (Anderson, Gary B.) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sex ratios Message-ID: <412D098B2703D311AD74005004774DCFB2F66E@asmail.ucdavis.edu> I should be at home doing yard work, or at least sitting in our pasture watching our Jacob sheep lollygag in belly-deep grasses of springtime. Instead, I'll summarize what I know about artificial control of sex ratio. My original message posted on the List was one that I sent to an individual in response to questions that she directed to me. I subsequently gave permission to post my reply, which wasn't intended as general coverage on the subject of sex ratios. This one is. Throughout history, humans have been intrigued with the prospect of exerting control over the sex of their offspring and their animals' offspring, and they developed clever ways to enhance the chances of producing male or female progeny. The ancient Greeks advocated having women lie on their right side during intercourse to produce boy babies and on their left side to produce girl babies. A later Slavic custom involved squeezing the right testis at ejaculation to produce a boy; if this proved to be awkward, a man could achieve the same result by biting his wife's right ear. (And the Slavs were right: biting the wife's ear is just as effective at influencing the sex ratio as squeezing the right testis.) Regarding control of sex ratio in animals, techniques have included affecting the side from which a male dismounts after mating, whether animals mate into the wind or with the wind at their backs, and when mating occurs relative to a full moon. While I was a graduate student in the early 1970s, a book was published titled 'Your Baby's Sex'. It topped the best-sellers list for months; the author made a bundle. The author explained how couples could affect the sex of their soon-to-be-conceived child via timing and frequency of intercourse relative to ovulation. The technique was based on changes in vaginal pH, sperm survival and a number of other principles either for which no scientific documentation of their validity was available or that had not withstood scientific scrutiny. Twenty-something years later, after having presented my annual lecture on efforts to affect the sex ratio, senior undergraduates enrolled in my Reproductive Physiology course came forward to tell me that their parents had used the technique; about half the time their parents had gotten the sex they are after. A large number of patents have been awarded for sex-control gadgets and techniques. They involve centrifuging sperm cells, exposing them to an electrical field or to various antibodies, making sperm swim through a viscous matrix, and just about anything else one can think of to do to a male's body parts or his sperm cells. Private companies will provide the service; if you give them your money, they will sex your semen. One company (no longer operating) claimed a money-back guarantee; if a client didn't get the desired sex, his/her money was returned. On average, I suspect that the company got to keep the client's $$ about half the time. The idea that orthodox Jews have more boys circulates from time to time, as does the one that British deep-sea divers and bulls taken from sea level to a high elevation produce an excess of sons. One should evaluate the data and the circumstances under which they were collected. (Data might exist, but I haven't see them. I would like to see these data if anyone knows where they are available.) One proponent of a highly touted procedure espouses the swimming speed idea, but the only data that support it are from human clinical trials conducted in obscure places and provided by clinicians who profit from the procedure. Results of controlled and peer-reviewed experiments showed no effect. The results of enormous field trials with cattle showed no effect. A scientific review on timing of insemination and sex ratio published in Theriogenology (vol 52, beginning on page 1273) presents the overall conclusion that if there is an effect, it is small. Researchers at USDA Beltsville developed a procedure using expensive and sophisticated equipment (a cell sorter) using lasers and other stuff that I can not begin to understand. The researchers demonstrated conclusively that they could separate X- from Y-bearing spermatozoa based on the different amounts of DNA in the two types of sperm. (Generally, but not always, the Y chromosome is smaller than the X chromosome; thus, an X-bearing spermatozoan would be expected to have slightly more DNA than a Y-bearing spermatozoan. Since the X and Y chromosomes generally are large compared with other chromosomes, the difference in total DNA can be a few percentages. This difference is sufficient for the precision of a cell sorter.) A company associated with Colorado State University (XY Inc.) has licensed the technology and is attempting to improve it for practical use in animals. There is little doubt that X- and Y-bearing sperm can be separated, but originally the machine had to run all day to produce a sufficient number of 'sexed' sperm cells to inseminate one female. Most research documenting the validity of the procedure was done with surgical insemination into the oviduct (impractical) or in vitro fertilization, both of which require small numbers of spermatozoa. XY Inc. has conducted field trials in cattle using sexed semen and standard AI techniques and achieved reasonable fertilization rates and excellent skewing of the sex ratio (e.g., 90% in the desired direction). The results of these trials have withstood scientific review for publication in professional journals. Separation of X- and Y-bearing spermatozoa based on documented differences in size of the X and Y chromosomes sounds reasonable, and it took the development of sensitive and precise equipment to achieve the separation. Procedures based on other characteristics of the two types of sperm are difficult to justify from a biological standpoint. With only a few documented exceptions, genes in a sperm cell are considered to be inactive (because the DNA is bound by proteins called protamines, which are removed from the sperm DNA only after the sperm has penetrated the egg). If the genes of an X- versus a Y-bearing spermatozoan are not being expressed, how would differences in the sperm cells be expected or explained? I'm going home to watch my sheep play in the grass. From Jacobflock at aol.com Sat Mar 17 17:38:21 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sex ratios Message-ID: <2f.12703926.27e5415d@aol.com> Old wive's tales...and old men's tales for that matter...die slowly...but what about putting pink lemonade in vinegar water and stirring it with a pine swizzle stick. Gary, you have gone the distance on the sex ratio question and it is a real contribution. Fred Horak From Jacobflock at aol.com Sat Mar 17 18:10:23 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] My own survey Message-ID: <105.65791a.27e548df@aol.com> Fred Horak here. We have about 70 ewes, 21 rams and about 24 lambs. Of the, say 90, adults, say 20 are part of our experiemnt with Texas A&M for the lysosomal disease; leaving 70 Jacobs. Of the 70, approximately 50 are double registered, 20 JSBA registered are being JSC registered. Our flock objective is primarily conservation and to us the registration is a "deposit" in a genetic bank book rather than a proof of prettiness. Not everyone has this as a primary flock objective and not everyone considers the registry as a genetic map. We sell lambs from 200-250...some we will not sell period. Horn, sex, color ratio, registry are not particularly germaine. Depending on the breeding, we will sell adult proven producers for 200-350. We will not sell to a party we suspect will use it for a canned hunt...big in TX. We do not sell to "exotic" breeders, we avoid speculative "brokers"..the buyer who turns around to sell a "rare" breed. We do try to sell proven Jacobs as a "flock" of recommended sire and dams to people who will raise them for the breed itself. We often give preference and make discounts to parties we think will be responsible. The guidelines for "cost"...cost to us? or cost to the buyer? do vary. Our costs for keeping a large flock last year were very heavy....haven't done taxes yet....might be $100/Jacob. We had some high hay costs because of drought...we had one ewe run up a $500 bill. The cost to the buyer can run up passed on (1) pedigree, (2) fleece, (3) color, (4) horn set...and perhaps in that order. We sell culls for $50 to the ethnic market. We had a "visitor" ask if we could sell him 5 sheep a week between like mid February and mid March. We didn't have a single sheep to sell. We do not take any Jacobs to the sale barn. I do take about 20% of the lamb crop...in the past this has been 10-12/year ...to a private slaughter house. We generally keep one lamb and give the rest to a Plano food pantry that has freezer capacity. Cost to raise and price to sell is probably very local. TX is highly commercial and the going rate for a sheep is 45-50; a sheep is a sheep is a sheep. TX is not especially conservation oriented; it just has to be big. Our best outlet for fleeces has been a Waco, TX fiber store. The owner buys 15-25 Jacob fleeces. This is a quickie before chores. Hope it helps. Fred From Jacobflock at aol.com Sat Mar 17 18:24:28 2001 From: Jacobflock at aol.com (Jacobflock@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sore mouth Message-ID: <14.1120f36e.27e54c2c@aol.com> Fred here. Kathy's note on confusion between FMD and soremouth is worth noting. Sore mouth starts with scabs on the lips and MAY have a tendency to appear with stress. Stress on ewes with lambing and stress at weaning. Sore mouth is very contagious between sheep but is short lived, rarely fatal. Sore mouth can be contracted by humans primarily through a cut or abrasion. If sheep break out with sore mouth you can get a LIVE VIRUS to treat the sheep. The live virus is applied to the sheep by scratching the skin (making an abrasion), apply the live virus. A scab forms and immunity runs its course. However, if the shepherd gets the live virus into a cut or abrasion...or doesn't wash after using the virus...or otherwise carelessly handles the virus so that it reaches the dermis or mucous tissue...prepare for two months of "Hell"....it can spread and it is an ORFUL experience. I don't think humans have an immunity, as such, to sore mouth so the live virus should be handled with gloves and the gloves disposed of. Throwing the unused live virus and gloves in the trash bag in the barn may set up a potent source of sore mouth for a decade. Fred From creagchild at monad.net Sat Mar 17 19:31:40 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot and Mouth: UK Action Message-ID: <003901c0af42$cdb70580$b26ee7ce@oemcomputer> Folks, we MUST keep our eyes open here: many of us have imported sheep from Canada, many of us have travelled to the UK....and here is the reality of the actions to be taken by the UK Agriculture Ministry: FRIDAY MARCH 16 2001 Million sheep die to reopen countryside BY VALERIE ELLIOTT AND ANDREW PIERCE UP to one million sheep, pig and goats within three kilometres of areas infected with foot-and-mouth disease will be slaughtered in the next four weeks, the Government indicated yesterday. The cull has been ordered by ministers who are intent on returning the countryside to normal life within ten days. They hope that firm action will enable ramblers and holidaymakers to return to large tracts of Lincolnshire, East Anglia, Surrey, Sussex, Hampshire and Dorset. But with no immediate prospect of the outbreak abating, the Duke of Westminster, Britain?s richest man, moved to help farmers by matching the ?500,000 contribution to charities made yesterday by the Prince of Wales. The duke and Prince, who are close friends, agreed last week to make the contributions on consecutive days in an attempt to draw donations from benefactors and businesses. The Prince, visiting a London housing estate yesterday, said he was delighted by the matching donation. The duke said: ?I saw terrible suffering in the 1967 outbreak and I am fearful it will happen again on the same scale. Much of my support will be targeted towards Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire and Scotland, where I believe the problems are most severe.? The charities which will benefit are the Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution, the Royal Scottish Agricultural Benevolent Institution, the Rural Stress Network and The Samaritans. The Duke of Devonshire, who has 12,000 acres at Chatsworth in Derbyshire, will next week consider making a contribution. The mass slaughter will be concentrated in areas of highest infection, in Cumbria, and Dumfries and Galloway. Cattle are being spared automatic slaughter unless vets identify the virus on a farm or a dangerous contact. Nick Brown, the Agriculture Minister, said it was a ?safety first? move. Ministers want to try to revive rural tourism, although the public will still be urged to avoid farms with animals. The general livestock movement ban throughout the country expires in seven days, after which it is hoped that infected areas can open for normal business. But heavily infected areas will face a continued ban on movements. Farmers last night accepted the ?grim but necessary? reality of slaughtering healthy animals. Ben Gill, president of the National Farmers? Union, said: ?Our farms should be starting to jump to life with newborn lambs and calves. Instead many will feel that spring has been cancelled and their farms are simply dead.? thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010317/2ddb0ac6/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Sat Mar 17 19:32:36 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot-and-Mouth: Farmers revolt Message-ID: <004301c0af42$eefaf3a0$b26ee7ce@oemcomputer> ISSUE 2122 Saturday 17 March 2001 Farmers in revolt over mass cull By David Brown, Agriculture Editor Vets blame men from ministry for slaughter delay Union rebels defy 'killing for killing's sake' 'These merinos are my family' Land of milk and money down the drain 'We would rather die than let them kill our flock' Postpone the election plans, say half of voters Countryside not out of bounds, says Meacher Church bells will ring out to show their support 'We need emergency centre for vaccines' Giant calling card for MPs How to help the farmers Daily Telegraph: No trust, no cure THE militant Farmers for Action group declared "all-out war" on the Government yesterday as the rural revolt grew over plans to cull up to a million healthy animals in the foot and mouth crisis. While the National Farmers' Union, which supports the cull, forecast "months of torture", its members in Cumbria split from the leadership and threatened to barricade their farms to prevent Ministry of Agriculture vets from destroying their stock. The NFU called for "hundreds of millions of pounds" to rebuild the industry. Nick Brown, the Minister of Agriculture, was forced to apologise for his blunder on Thursday which led farmers to believe that cattle would be included in the extra, precautionary cull. Only sheep, pigs, goats, llamas and alpacas will be included in the cull within three kilometres of infected farms. The cull was put on hold until Jim Scudamore, the Government's chief vet, travels to Carlisle on Monday to explain his reasons for it. Cumbria is one of the areas worst hit by the disease, but cattle will be slaughtered only if they catch the disease because they are regarded as less of a risk as carriers. The number of confirmed outbreaks rose by 17 to 273. One of them was among a dozen sheep used to crop grass at a Ministry of Defence explosives depot at East Riggs, near Gretna, in Dumfries and Galloway. Ben Gill: 'That torture was compounded yesterday by mistakes made at the Ministry of Agriculture' Mr Brown said he was sorry for the "ambiguity" of his statement which caused anger and panic. He said: "We did not explain ourselves very well. I apologise on my own behalf and on behalf of the ministry for any harm and distress. I take responsibility." But even as the Government tried to calm the rising tide of protest, there was new controversy about the total impact of the extra cull. Mr Brown and his officials said that the figure for the extra doomed livestock could be "around 300,000", but the NFU said that it could top one million. The Government would not abandon farmers, Mr Brown said. It recognised that "substantial" extra aid would be needed. He said he was preparing a list of aid measures which he would discuss with the European Commission in Brussels on Monday. Ben Gill, the NFU president, said that farmers were facing the "torture" of seeing their herds and flocks wiped out and not knowing where the disease would strike next or if their farms would survive. He said: "That torture was compounded yesterday by mistakes made at the Ministry of Agriculture." He would be submitting compensation demands totalling "hundreds of millions", including money to allow farmers to quit the industry. EU schemes were available for that purpose. The Rural Recovery Task Force was continuing to discuss measures to open up parts of the country, but Mr Gill said it could be premature to open areas deemed to be "clean". In a bleak description of the impact of the disease, he said: "When you have cattle killed and piled up on your farm and left for five or six days in the rotting stinking hulk that is so pervasive, you can imagine how the emotions build up." The NFU was worried about delays between the disease being identified and slaughter beginning. Tesco, Britain's largest supermarket chain, said it would sell more British pork and order its suppliers to pay farmers for it within 48 hours to ease their cash problems. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010317/6e1611d9/attachment.html From gary792 at iname.com Sat Mar 17 23:27:09 2001 From: gary792 at iname.com (fay, gary) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sex ratios References: <412D098B2703D311AD74005004774DCFB2F66E@asmail.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3AB4391D.8AA29741@iname.com> Dr. Anderson, One observation in humans is that if the woman percieves that the man is inadequte, ro the resouces in the area are scarce, that the ratios become squewed toward the female for "ease of reproduction". The theory in nature being that it is easier for a female to spread her parents genes than it is for a male. ( Females just have to show up, males must compete.) There was a 'slight' bias seen in ratios seen on income in survey studies of humans where, richer families tended to have more sons than poorer families. Gary Fay "Anderson, Gary B." wrote: > I should be at home doing yard work, or at least sitting in our pasture > watching our Jacob sheep lollygag in belly-deep grasses of springtime. > Instead, I'll summarize what I know about artificial control of sex ratio. > My original message posted on the List was one that I sent to an individual > in response to questions that she directed to me. I subsequently gave > permission to post my reply, which wasn't intended as general coverage on > the subject of sex ratios. This one is. > > Throughout history, humans have been intrigued with the prospect of exerting > control over the sex of their offspring and their animals' offspring, and > they developed clever ways to enhance the chances of producing male or > female progeny. The ancient Greeks advocated having women lie on their > right side during intercourse to produce boy babies and on their left side > to produce girl babies. A later Slavic custom involved squeezing the right > testis at ejaculation to produce a boy; if this proved to be awkward, a man > could achieve the same result by biting his wife's right ear. (And the > Slavs were right: biting the wife's ear is just as effective at influencing > the sex ratio as squeezing the right testis.) Regarding control of sex > ratio in animals, techniques have included affecting the side from which a > male dismounts after mating, whether animals mate into the wind or with the > wind at their backs, and when mating occurs relative to a full moon. > > While I was a graduate student in the early 1970s, a book was published > titled 'Your Baby's Sex'. It topped the best-sellers list for months; the > author made a bundle. The author explained how couples could affect the sex > of their soon-to-be-conceived child via timing and frequency of intercourse > relative to ovulation. The technique was based on changes in vaginal pH, > sperm survival and a number of other principles either for which no > scientific documentation of their validity was available or that had not > withstood scientific scrutiny. Twenty-something years later, after having > presented my annual lecture on efforts to affect the sex ratio, senior > undergraduates enrolled in my Reproductive Physiology course came forward to > tell me that their parents had used the technique; about half the time their > parents had gotten the sex they are after. > > A large number of patents have been awarded for sex-control gadgets and > techniques. They involve centrifuging sperm cells, exposing them to an > electrical field or to various antibodies, making sperm swim through a > viscous matrix, and just about anything else one can think of to do to a > male's body parts or his sperm cells. Private companies will provide the > service; if you give them your money, they will sex your semen. One company > (no longer operating) claimed a money-back guarantee; if a client didn't get > the desired sex, his/her money was returned. On average, I suspect that the > company got to keep the client's $$ about half the time. > > The idea that orthodox Jews have more boys circulates from time to time, as > does the one that British deep-sea divers and bulls taken from sea level to > a high elevation produce an excess of sons. One should evaluate the data > and the circumstances under which they were collected. (Data might exist, > but I haven't see them. I would like to see these data if anyone knows > where they are available.) One proponent of a highly touted procedure > espouses the swimming speed idea, but the only data that support it are from > human clinical trials conducted in obscure places and provided by clinicians > who profit from the procedure. Results of controlled and peer-reviewed > experiments showed no effect. The results of enormous field trials with > cattle showed no effect. A scientific review on timing of insemination and > sex ratio published in Theriogenology (vol 52, beginning on page 1273) > presents the overall conclusion that if there is an effect, it is small. > > Researchers at USDA Beltsville developed a procedure using expensive and > sophisticated equipment (a cell sorter) using lasers and other stuff that I > can not begin to understand. The researchers demonstrated conclusively that > they could separate X- from Y-bearing spermatozoa based on the different > amounts of DNA in the two types of sperm. (Generally, but not always, the Y > chromosome is smaller than the X chromosome; thus, an X-bearing spermatozoan > would be expected to have slightly more DNA than a Y-bearing spermatozoan. > Since the X and Y chromosomes generally are large compared with other > chromosomes, the difference in total DNA can be a few percentages. This > difference is sufficient for the precision of a cell sorter.) A company > associated with Colorado State University (XY Inc.) has licensed the > technology and is attempting to improve it for practical use in animals. > There is little doubt that X- and Y-bearing sperm can be separated, but > originally the machine had to run all day to produce a sufficient number of > 'sexed' sperm cells to inseminate one female. Most research documenting the > validity of the procedure was done with surgical insemination into the > oviduct (impractical) or in vitro fertilization, both of which require small > numbers of spermatozoa. XY Inc. has conducted field trials in cattle using > sexed semen and standard AI techniques and achieved reasonable fertilization > rates and excellent skewing of the sex ratio (e.g., 90% in the desired > direction). The results of these trials have withstood scientific review > for publication in professional journals. > > Separation of X- and Y-bearing spermatozoa based on documented differences > in size of the X and Y chromosomes sounds reasonable, and it took the > development of sensitive and precise equipment to achieve the separation. > Procedures based on other characteristics of the two types of sperm are > difficult to justify from a biological standpoint. With only a few > documented exceptions, genes in a sperm cell are considered to be inactive > (because the DNA is bound by proteins called protamines, which are removed > from the sperm DNA only after the sperm has penetrated the egg). If the > genes of an X- versus a Y-bearing spermatozoan are not being expressed, how > would differences in the sperm cells be expected or explained? > > I'm going home to watch my sheep play in the grass. > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From WenlochFrm at aol.com Sun Mar 18 10:27:50 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sore mouth Message-ID: In a message dated 3/17/01 6:26:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jacobflock@aol.com writes: > . I > don't think humans have an immunity, as such, to sore mouth so the live > virus > should be handled with gloves and the gloves disposed of. Throwing the > unused live virus and gloves in the trash bag in the barn may set up a > potent > source of sore mouth for a decade. Fred > Research out of Edinburgh awhile back indicated that the virus can be successfully killed by using formaldehyde on surfaces within the barn (not on the animal). If I remember correctly the study indicated that the virus does not live long in outside areas exposed to sunlight. Wish I could remember more. I lost the article during one of my computer crashes. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010318/520bd2bc/attachment.htm From WenlochFrm at aol.com Sun Mar 18 10:31:22 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Sex ratios Message-ID: <7f.11a4aa7e.27e62eca@aol.com> Gary, thank you for laying to rest (hopefully) all the old wives' tales that have been making the rounds for as far back as I can remember. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010318/f7f91717/attachment.html From sbennett at teleport.com Mon Mar 19 09:02:17 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Dirt Roads Message-ID: <20010319140339.CB0D453661@pairlist.net> 1952 - cigarette lighter becomes standard equipment in cars 1965 - seat belt becomes standard equipment in cars ------------------------------------------------------------ by: Paul Harvey What's mainly wrong with society today is that too many Dirt Roads have been paved. There's not a problem in America today, crime, drugs, education, divorce, delinquency that wouldn't be remedied, if we just had more Dirt Roads, because Dirt Roads give character. People that live at the end of Dirt Roads learn early on that life is a bumpy ride. That it can jar you right down to your teeth sometimes, but it's worth it, if at the end is home...a loving spouse, happy children and a dog. We wouldn't have near the trouble with our educational system if our children got their exercise walking a Dirt Road with other children, from whom they learn how to get along. There was less crime in our streets before they were paved. Criminals didn't walk two dusty miles to rob or rape, if they knew they'd be welcomed by 5 barking dogs and a double barrel shotgun. And there were no driveby shootings. Our values were better when our roads were worse! People did not worship their cars more than their children, and motorists were more courteous, they didn't tailgate by riding the bumper, or the guy in front would choke you with dust & bust your windshield with rocks. Dirt Roads taught patience. Dirt Roads were environmentally friendly, you didn't hop in your car for a quart of milk - you walked to the barn for your milk. For your mail, you walked to the mailbox. What if it rained and the Dirt Road got washed out? That was the best part, then you stayed home and had some family time, roasted marshmallows and popped popcorn and ponyride on Daddy's shoulders and learned how to make prettier quilts than anybody. At the end of Dirt Roads, you soon learned that bad words tasted like soap. Most paved roads lead to trouble, Dirt Roads more likely lead to a fishing creek or a swimming hole. At the end of a Dirt Road, the only time we even locked our car was in August, because if we didn't some neighbor would fill it with too much zucchini. At the end of a Dirt Road, there was always extra Springtime income, from when city dudes would get stuck, you'd have to hitch up a team and pull them out. Usually you got a dollar... always you got a new friend... at the end of a Dirt Road. From SharHill at aol.com Mon Mar 19 18:28:05 2001 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] judging quality of fleece on young lambs Message-ID: <4d.8f69647.27e7f005@aol.com> Hi all, I am wondering how you judge the quality of a fleece on a very young lamb. I have read list members commenting on the fleeces of some of their newborns. How can you tell if the fleece will be nice? One of my little ram lambs is so pretty, I would like to keep him as a ram if he develops well. If I can have a clue as to what to look for in a lamb fleece, I can be saved some of the suspense of waiting to see how it turns out. I appreciate any insights anyone can give me. Sharon in Georgia From stonecroft235 at juno.com Mon Mar 19 20:05:58 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010319.200603.-324531.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> What a wonderful day - the sun was shining & spring was in the air, the new lambs enjoyed a day in the meadow, and I just returned from the barn where I spent ALOT of time with the lambs - aren't their soft little ears just so CUTE!! BUT, to make my day even better, I served grilled lamb chops to my family tonight and THEY LOVED 'EM!!!! Even my 18 year old, somewhat picky daughter had 2nds and 3rds!! Life just doesn't get much better than this!!!! (Marinade recipe below.) 1/3 cup dry red wine 1/3 cup lemon juice 1/3 cup cooking oil 1/4 cup Dijon-style mustard 3 tablespoons snipped fresh rosemary or 2 tsp. dried rosemary, crushed 4 cloves garlic, minced 1/2 tsp. salt 1/2 tsp. pepper Mix well, marinate in the fridge for 6-24 hrs. - enough to marinate a 3-4 lb. boneless leg of lamb (used it for chops & grilled them) Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From BIDEWEE at aol.com Tue Mar 20 13:14:04 2001 From: BIDEWEE at aol.com (BIDEWEE@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: Lamb Fleeces Message-ID: <1e.12e69634.27e8f7ec@aol.com> In a message dated 3/20/2001 9:06:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, jacob-list-request@jacobsheep.com writes: > If I can have a clue as to what to look for in a lamb fleece, I can be saved > some of > Hi Sharon, The November 2000 JSBA newsletter (pages 13 & 14) had a great article written by Ingrid Painter titled "Lamb Fleece Evaluation in Jacob Sheep Under Six Weeks of Age". I keep a copy of it in my lambing record book at the barn - it has photos of each of the fleece types and we've found it to be very helpful. In brief, a lamb born with a Type A fleece (a "top of the line fleece" in Ingrid's opinion) has tiny, tight curls with skin easily visible around each curl, and the fleece (both black and white) is the same all over the body. A Type B fleece (which we've found to be the most common) has a mixture of Type A wool (often found only in the white areas) and a coarser straighter fiber in other (usually black) areas. A Type C fleece is basically the same as Type B but has freckling in the white areas. Type D fleece appears wiry due to a lot of kemp fibers and very coarse wool. A Type fleece is an exaggerated Type D and will never be a "top of the line" handspinning fleece. We take photos of the lambs shortly after birth and make written observations of how the fleeces look, including where the britch and belly wool start. Then, when we shear the lambs we compare the sheared fleece to our observations. We've been doing this for several years now and it has been a great aid in helping us to predict how the adult fleece will turn out. Karen Lobb bide a wee farm ~ registered Jacob & Navajo-Churro Sheep bideawee@iname.com ~ www.bideaweefarm.com 19562 NE Calkins Lane, Newberg, OR ~ 503-538-7987 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010320/ab25e186/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Wed Mar 21 07:21:23 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Tastin' good! Message-ID: <00dd01c0b201$721eb3a0$e0ec61cc@oemcomputer> Sue - My wife and I were rolling on the floor from this post....there is something very humorous about moving quickly from cute little lambs with cute little ears...to how delicious they are to eat! BTW, the recipe sounds GREAT! thom (awaiting 7" MORE snow tonight! Argh! Good things these little lambs have black spots so I can find 'em....) From iseespots at hotmail.com Wed Mar 21 08:26:46 2001 From: iseespots at hotmail.com (Mary Hansson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lambs and marinade Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks, Sue for the great lamb marinade recipe! I might even have to try that one out---anything to make it taste good! Don't you know that very few people eat the babies? They eat the teenagers! That is what an old shepherd around here says, and she is SO right! I try making sure I say that to the homeschoolers especially if there are several angelic-looking teens in the group ;o) Lamb count this year is 7 ewes, 3 rams. This was to have been my ram year---guess that is still coming! Mary Ellen _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From WenlochFrm at aol.com Wed Mar 21 19:59:55 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Scrapie triggered by? Message-ID: <86.879ce58.27eaa88b@aol.com> An interesting item in the latest Michigan Sheep Breeders' Association publication. I won't bore anyone with the entire article but I think this is very interesting. ".....There is a growing amount of information indicating an over-supply of manganese could trigger scrapie, BSE and vCJD.........". Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010321/91057728/attachment.html From pavel314 at home.com Wed Mar 21 23:26:07 2001 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Key To American Market? Message-ID: <3AB97EDF.86B28EEA@home.com> I wonder if gyro-burger could be the key to expanding the American lamb market? My reasoning is based on the fact that I never had lamb until I was in my 30's, when I ordered it at a restaurant because everything else looked too routine and boring and I was in an obnoxious mood. I thought it was good and different, but wasn't converted to a regular lamb diet. I probably ate lamb once every four or five years until I started raising sheep. However, I always loved those Greek gyro sandwiches, which are a combination of lamb and beef. When I discovered that a deli near my home sold gyro loaf, I made it a regular item on my grocery list. I'd fry slices with eggs for breakfast, make a sandwich for lunch, or bake a hunk like a roast for dinner. I discussed this with my friends at work. They all love gyro but rarely, if ever, eat lamb. So why doesn't the American Lamb Institute, or the American Sheep Board, or whoever is in charge of these things, put on a major marketing blitz to push gyro in various manifestations? They could market gyro burgers, frozen patties of ground lamb and beef. Or gyro loaf, like my deli in Minneapolis sold. Or even the whole gyro roast like you see in Greek restaurants. Eventually, the yuppies will get bored with deep-frying turkey in the back yard; that's the time to sell them propane-fired gyro-roaster racks! It's true that gyro is only half lamb, but wouldn't it be better to grab half of a large market than to maintain 100% of a minuscule market? Paul Intihar Rainbow Farm Joppa, Maryland Website: http://members.home.net/rbfarm/ From gary792 at iname.com Wed Mar 21 19:37:10 2001 From: gary792 at iname.com (fay, gary) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link Message-ID: <3AB94936.4A7C986E@iname.com> Did everyone see this, very disappointing ... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010321/ts/madcow_sheep_dc_7.html From bissell at usit.net Thu Mar 22 18:24:29 2001 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link In-Reply-To: <3AB94936.4A7C986E@iname.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010322181805.05189040@pop.usit.net> At 07:37 PM 3/21/01 -0500, you wrote: >Did everyone see this, very disappointing ... > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010321/ts/madcow_sheep_dc_7.html ============ I read but am I missing something???? Would you want some of these sheep on your property??? Would you really want to eat lamb chops from them??? After all they were recently imported - and from what I read about the problems in GB I sure do not want that happening here. Some of these neurological diseases are devastating to livestock and some also to humans. I would not be happy if by next year something bad happened and the USDA had done nothing. If the flock had not been recently imported I would probably not be as apprehensive as I am toward this particular flock. Just my opinion. === From creagchild at monad.net Thu Mar 22 20:33:30 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link Message-ID: <000e01c0b339$456923c0$3fc11cd0@oemcomputer> > >I read but am I missing something???? Would you want some of these sheep >on your property??? Would you really want to eat lamb chops from >them??? After all they were recently imported - and from what I read about >the problems in GB I sure do not want that happening here Edd - This situation has been going on for over a year up here. The fact are: 1) the USDA does *not* know that it is "mad cow," because the test is inconlusive in sheep: scrapie causes the same test result. The USDA admits they can't prove the sheep have it. 2) these sheep are NOT meat sheep, they are milk sheep, producing milk & cheese. 3) there has *never* been a case of "mad cow" reported in a sheep before 4) It is *not* contagious from one animal to another unless the body of the animal is comsumed in feed 5) there is no evidence that these sheep ate such food in Belgium 6) the siezure took place *while a court appeal was pending.* This is NOT anything like foot-and-mouth, but the feds sure seized the opportunity to ride the crest of legitimate public fear over that to strike. Quite frankly - and I am a shepherd near these folks - I think this raid was nothing less than appalling. The few shepherds around us with whom I have spoken who have supported the government action have tended to be *large* producers whose only concern was the public's perception of their own product, and I'm not very impressed by short-sightedness and selfishness. thom From bissell at usit.net Thu Mar 22 21:16:54 2001 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link In-Reply-To: <000e01c0b339$456923c0$3fc11cd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010322210250.05172ec0@pop.usit.net> > >Edd - > >This situation has been going on for over a year up here. The fact are: ======== Yes = BUT , and this is a big BUT, the situation in GB has just come to a head in the past few weeks giving the USDA more of a sense of emergency I would think ====== >1) the USDA does *not* know that it is "mad cow," because the test is >inconlusive in sheep: scrapie causes the same test result. The USDA admits >they can't prove the sheep have it. ========== so?????? precaution. There have been positive results to some of the neurological diseases that are in the same family. ======= >2) these sheep are NOT meat sheep, they are milk sheep, producing milk & >cheese. ======= precaution - would you want to eat cheese from them??? Or let your kids or grandkids??? Look, I am not a "the sky is falling" type person but until I know all of the facts I believe that we do NOT take a chance on something like this. Remember this, or part of this flock, was recently imported and that puts a whole new aspect on the situation. ===== >3) there has *never* been a case of "mad cow" reported in a sheep before >4) It is *not* contagious from one animal to another unless the body of the >animal is comsumed in feed >5) there is no evidence that these sheep ate such food in Belgium >6) the siezure took place *while a court appeal was pending.* ======== Look we can go on and on with this - you and I both are playing "what if's" - you want to "take a chance on everything being o.k." = and I certainly do not!! Just heard on the news tonight that Ireland is the latest country where animals are being destroyed. ==== >Quite frankly - and I am a shepherd near these folks - I think this raid was >nothing less than appalling. ========= The raid might have been appalling but the owners have, and they do have a right to do so, dragged this on in the courts - as I may have done so also. But to me recent events have put this whole episode in a different perspective - I really think that better be safe than sorry is appropriate in this particular case. Edd Bissell New Market, Tn. www.eddbissell.com From WenlochFrm at aol.com Thu Mar 22 22:04:59 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link Message-ID: <45.3fe26e9.27ec175b@aol.com> Far more worrisome to me is the immediate and real danger of FMD finding its way into this country, and I don't see how they will ever keep it out when you consider the number of world travelers we have, and now that it's in Argentina, migrating birds can even carry it here. At first I thought, no problem, I'll just get my flock vaccinated. Very wrong thinking since vaccinated animals test positive for the disease and are destroyed by the authorities. This has the potential to be so devastating, particularly to our rare breeds. And there is no way to protect yourself against it. I'm praying for a miracle that it doesn't reach our shores. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010322/8c951cee/attachment.htm From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Fri Mar 23 05:52:35 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:41 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] fmd Message-ID: <10523529509297@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> I am 60 miles away from the virus in Dumfries and Galloway. I am terrified. I have 25 sheep in my shed lambing and 40 away at grazing 25 miles away. They are now lambing. I am not allowed to bring them home to lamb. So far 6 have gone to the fox. The farmer whose land it is is dairying, he has given us a shed to put them in for lambing them.We will spend money on buying pens, hay straw, and sheep feeding to get them through, then the virus might come closer. Our department of agriculture, and MAFF are doing everything by the book. There has been terrible delays in culling proven diseased animals. The departments are terrified of doing something wrong and encurring public and political wrath.My herd of pedigree belted galloway cows start their calving in 3-5weeks, will their calves even be born!!!! Straw mats and dunking wellies in disenfectant will not keep it away. A new story to reach me was of a farmer who went to Longtown market, in Cumbria, where all this started, and he came home with the virus, he didnt even buy any sheep that day , and all his 1200 blackface ewes due to lamb in April are all dead. There will be a lot of agricultural suicides this year. My husband has 2 part time jobs, as a farm worker, and helping the local agric engineer, welding paint spraying etc. The 2nd job has now gone, no-one wants extra visitors on their land, so the work has dried up. Sooner or later, if the virus gets closer, the 1st one will go too, and then there will be terrible financial difficulty. The banks are not sympathetic at all, dispite what they tell us on TV. So in the meantime i work at my part time job, and will try to keep my animals alive, although we will not be able to afford the grazing fees and shed hire as a new addition to the finance burden.Dumfres and Galloway are doing a first class job keeping the virus down there. But sooner or later, some stupid idiot will bring it into Ayrshire. In UK apparently u have to have a licence to feed pig-swill. On the farm where the disease was traced back to , he didnt boil it properly, or have a licence. I havent a clue what is to happen to him. My husband has a good theory about how the virus arrived. he is convinced the carrier was in the catering/restaurant business, probably Indian a country where fmd is endemic, and was at the festival where u swam in the Ganges, that was in the beginning February. Then he/she came back to UK probably in the Newcastle area and started working in the restaurant again, and the food disposed of, ended up at the pig farm. What do you think of this theory? I am getting sad about my future in rare breeds now, will there be a decent gene pool left after this has all died down. A fine wool producer in Cumbria has to have her merino sheep and all her alpacas shot. Her face on TV was devastated. All her hard work gone in a day. In Uk alpacas cost ?2000 each. where will she have the finances to replace a quality herd, especially of rare stock.That is if she still wants to farm. We may all end up working behind a till in Safeway.I think thats what our government would like. Tony Blair will not face up to this and declare a crisis. Now there are planning getting tourists back. I think this problem has to be tackled first before advertising for more visitors. I probably have a lot more to get off my chest,........................ but think of me today, and worry for my jacob, shetland, hebridean and my beltie cows. Susan From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 23 06:17:00 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link Message-ID: <002701c0b38a$c8607fc0$80c11cd0@oemcomputer> Far more worrisome to me is the immediate and real danger of FMD finding its way into this country....And there is no way to protect yourself against it. I'm praying for a miracle that it doesn't reach our shores. Joan - I agree 100%. If the USDA is seizing entire flocks for a "suspected" non-contagious disease, they have already established the precedent for what they'll do when FMD hits. FMD has also hit Israel, and the Netherlands, and travelers are STILL NOT being disinfected upon arrival in the US. thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010323/eaa9836c/attachment.html From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 23 06:31:42 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link Message-ID: <005701c0b38c$d68afc40$80c11cd0@oemcomputer> Edd wrote: >precaution - would you want to eat cheese from them??? Or let your kids or >grandkids??? Look, I am not a "the sky is falling" type person but until I >know all of the facts Edd, the facts are that this flock has been in this country for six years, NOT ONE of them shows ANY symptoms of ANYTHING, and hundreds (thousands?) of people have been eating their cheese all this time! We MUST rationally separate Bovine Spongiform Encephanlitis FROM Scrapie FROM Foot and Mouth DIsease. As for FMD - yes, I'm in a near panic over that. But this flock in Vermont? Emotion, not fact. >Look we can go on and on with this - you and I both are playing "what if's" >- you want to "take a chance on everything being o.k." These are NOT "what ifs," Edd! They are NOT symptomatic! Even if it was "Mad Cow," , it is NOT contagious! No sheep in the history of the world has contracted it! If you want to have "precautions," - and that *might* be prudent - thereare better ways to monitor a flock than to destroy it! (Destroying healthy animals always makes me wonder how many animals that have a natural immunity to the disease - and are therefore healthy - are destroyed in the carnage and lost to the gene pool). >I Just heard on the news tonight that Ireland is the latest country >where animals are being destroyed. That's FOOT AND MOUTH, NOT BSE! They are about as simliar as eating poison mushrooms and chicken pox. Sorry, this whole issue has me hot - buyt then again, it's taking place practically in my backyard. thom> From joyew at mindspring.com Fri Mar 23 06:56:09 2001 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Tragedy Message-ID: <3ABB39D9.D05D66F9@mindspring.com> Dear Susan, Our hearts go out to all of you that are suffering this awful tragedy. It seems even closer than just the reports we in the US hear and see on TV when we can communicate with you who are suffering. We who are raising animals and especially the Rare breeds are thinking all the ramifications that could and might happen to our livestock even though we are not walking in your shoes. It seems no matter how careful and vigilant one is something occurs to endanger your animals. We in the US should take heed and begin now. The Government is not going to totally protect us. Being a air born virus it can attach itself to anything or any one . Even in human air passages. We are beginning our season or opening our farms and moving our animals to shows and festivals. Should we consider losing the income to protect our sheep and goats or will it strike regardless of how careful we individual responsible shepherd are? This dilemma is facing all of us. We could sit home, be very protective and still be devastated. Believe me, you are in our thoughts and prayers as a fellow shepherd and animal breeder. Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg, Joy Farm Woodstown, N.J. Home of the beautiful, unique Jacob Sheep and wonderful BorderLeicester and White & Colored Angora Goats. From creagchild at monad.net Fri Mar 23 07:13:49 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Tragedy Message-ID: <001801c0b392$b8ba7b40$80c11cd0@oemcomputer> Dear Susan, and all our fellow shepherds across the Pond, I would just like to echo whatEdie and Wayne have said so well. I recently spoke to someone who just returned from Britain for a two week stay in the countryside, and they described the entire country as "morose" and "in mourning." I can't even begin to imagine the emotional and physical devastation going on over there - I literally groan in my spirit each time I hear a report. For what it's worth, a number of us over here have written to both the Labor govt and the SNP requesting more lenient treatment concerning the destruction of healthy flocks of rare breeds. It seems to be a drop of salve, though, on an otherwise gangrenous wound. thom From GraceLov at aol.com Fri Mar 23 15:55:04 2001 From: GraceLov at aol.com (GraceLov@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] susan & fmd Message-ID: <21.9387694.27ed1228@aol.com> Susan My good wishes & prayers go out to you. I am thinking of you to day! You touched me deeply with your letter. I am so sad about all of this fmd, every day it gets worse & worse. I write with folks in Scotland & your stories are so similar. I get so sad. I too sent an e-mail to England about special consideration for rare breeds, & got back an e-mail that said all sheep are equal. I will write to Blair about your concerns. I really do not have words to tell you how I feel for you. We are thinking of you over here & are grieved by this. My sheep are the joy of my life, my loves. grace in south Texas we have field after field, of 30 or more acres, for miles & miles, of solid blue this days. The flowers are blue bonnets. From pavel314 at home.com Mon Mar 26 07:02:14 2001 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue-eyed Ram Lamb Message-ID: <3ABF2FC6.90C67FC2@home.com> I just noticed yesterday that little Nebuchadnezzar, the bottle lamb whose mom almost died of late pregnancy ketosis, has blue eyes. Will this stay with him into adulthood or will his eyes turn darker as he matures? Raising Jacobs certainly changes your perspective, doesn't it? This creature is a two-toned, four-horned sheep, but I can accept that; it's the blue eyes that I find unusual. Paul Intihar Rainbow Farm Joppa, Maryland Website: http://members.home.net/rbfarm/ (Just passed 5,000 hits on the website!) From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Mon Mar 26 10:46:11 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue Eyes Message-ID: <001301c0b60b$e2d24360$bf96453f@cyrix> Paul, Your blue-eyed bottle lamb should have the same shade of eyes when he matures. Our Jacobs have brown eyes (most common in our flock), marbled eyes (blue and brown mixture), and vivid blue eyes. Like you, I have always found the blue eyes to be particularly interesting and quite pretty. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010326/2262023a/attachment.htm From stonecroft235 at juno.com Mon Mar 26 08:35:03 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010326.121217.-318205.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> With regard to Paul's post to the list regarding his blue-eyed ram lamb - how common are blue eyes in Jacobs? Do many of you have blue-eyed Jacobs? How heritable is this characteristic - and how common is it in other breeds of sheep? Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From snielsen at orednet.org Mon Mar 26 12:22:10 2001 From: snielsen at orednet.org (Susan L. Nielsen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: Blue Eyes In-Reply-To: <20010326.121217.-318205.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 stonecroft235@juno.com wrote: > With regard to Paul's post to the list regarding his blue-eyed ram lamb - > how common are blue eyes in Jacobs? Do many of you have blue-eyed > Jacobs? How heritable is this characteristic - and how common is it in > other breeds of sheep? We have a blue-eyed lilac ewe. Her eyes are as blue as blue agates. One of the other lilac ewes has what I would call grey eyes. And one of them has sort of hazel marbles for eyes. They seem to be all over the map. I was wondering whether light-colored eyes and lilac coloring are linked? Susan -- Susan Nielsen, Shambles Workshops |"...Gently down the Beavercreek, OR, USA |stream..." snielsen@orednet.org | -- Anon. From hettick.1 at osu.edu Mon Mar 26 14:15:04 2001 From: hettick.1 at osu.edu (Heather Hettick) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: Blue Eyes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a brown-eyed lilac ewe, and I would say her eyes are probably a little lighter than the brown eyes on most of my black sheep, but not that much different. Since using a blue-eyed lilac ram two years in a row, only on select ewes this year though, we have quite a few blue-eyed sheep. Some are a nice clear icy blue, some are sort of bluish-yellow (maybe they were marbled?) and I have one baby ram now who definitely has gray eyes. One of the ewe lambs this year is black with blue eyes. They are extra noticeable against her large black eye patches and the only other blue-eyed Jacob I had seen previous to buying our ram was a black ewe. I think lilac color and blue eye color are totally unrelated traits but maybe there just happen to be more lilacs around with blue or light eyes. I would guess, based on what I've seen in my flock, that blue eyes is a dominant trait as I have only had blue-eyed lambs from pairings where one of the parents had blue eyes. In the case of our ram, 4 of his 8 lambs last year had light colored or blue eyes and this year, 2 of the 4 he sired have light eyes. His twin, blue-eyed lilac daughters both had single black lambs this year, but one has blue eyes and one has brown eyes. Heather Hettick Moonstruck Jacob Sheep Creston, OH hettick.1@osu.edu From SharHill at aol.com Mon Mar 26 15:48:26 2001 From: SharHill at aol.com (SharHill@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] size of lambs, ewe nutrition Message-ID: Hi all, A while back, Fred posted information regarding nutrition of the ewe during pregnancy and its relation to fetal development. It made me wonder about a couple of things. First, I have heard that if a ewe bears twins and there is a fairly large difference in the size of the lambs, that perhaps the ewe didn't receive adequate nutrition during pregnancy. Is there any truth to this? My crossbred ewe, who was bred to my Jacob ram, produced twin ewe lambs and one was quite a bit larger than the other. (The smaller one was as vigorous, as her larger sister) My purebred Jacob ewe produced twins that were almost identical in size. Both ewes ate about the same thing during pregnancy. Would this mean that the crossbred ewe would need more food than Jacobs, or is this something that just happens, with no connection to nutrition? Second, I would be interested in hearing what others view as the perfect diet for pregnant/nursing ewes. Thanks. Sharon From creagchild at monad.net Mon Mar 26 16:49:53 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue-eyed Ram Lamb Message-ID: <00e301c0b63e$b19f2b40$346fe7ce@oemcomputer> Both of the ewes I purchased from Dan Kennedy in PEI have blue or blue/marbled eyes; their fleeces are also very grayed, and I don't know if there's any connection between the two facts. I do know that one of them lambed a few weeks ago, and she produced a blue-eyed ram (The daddy is a brown-eyed ram.) The other one is due this Wednesday.... thom From mcmcc at ucinet.com Mon Mar 26 18:05:52 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] size of lambs, ewe nutrition Message-ID: <000801c0b649$4fa42840$55b523d0@oemcomputer> I haven't been able to arrive at a perfect diet for my ewes. Some are obese and others thin. Most have twins and I'm just feeding top quality alfalfa with some grazing. My jacobs are separate now with their little babies and they are more interested in alfalfa than they usually are. Generally they prefer grass hay and will eat with the horses or llamas. I am thinking of feeding grain now that the babies are two to five weeks old. Just grain in the evening. But the fat ewes are almost unable to walk. I'm planning to sell the fatest ones. Had to do the same thing last summer. Most of the pure suffolks and the suffolk crosses I raised seem in a healthy range of weight but the crosses I bought from a ranch last year were apparently selected for thriftiness. Easy Keepers!! I have managed to find a home for some where the groceries won't be quite so good. mary -----Original Message----- From: SharHill@aol.com To: jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: [Jacob-list] size of lambs, ewe nutrition >Hi all, > >A while back, Fred posted information regarding nutrition of the ewe during >pregnancy and its relation to fetal development. It made me wonder about a >couple of things. > >First, I have heard that if a ewe bears twins and there is a fairly large >difference in the size of the lambs, that perhaps the ewe didn't receive >adequate nutrition during pregnancy. Is there any truth to this? My >crossbred ewe, who was bred to my Jacob ram, produced twin ewe lambs and one >was quite a bit larger than the other. (The smaller one was as vigorous, as >her larger sister) My purebred Jacob ewe produced twins that were almost >identical in size. Both ewes ate about the same thing during pregnancy. >Would this mean that the crossbred ewe would need more food than Jacobs, or >is this something that just happens, with no connection to nutrition? >Second, I would be interested in hearing what others view as the perfect diet >for pregnant/nursing ewes. > >Thanks. > >Sharon > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list > From perfectspot at blueridge.net Mon Mar 26 20:08:45 2001 From: perfectspot at blueridge.net (Cathy Robinson) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Re: Blue Eyes References: Message-ID: <3ABFE81D.F8A01914@blueridge.net> Our old Yakob-Tson ewe that is 12+ years of age has one ice blue eye, and one marbled eye. She gives us babies with beautiful ice blue eyes every time. Interestingly enough, her own blue eye is surrounded by white....no eye patch on that one side, but she has always produced offspring with two nice eye patches. She is not lilac. So far this year, we have a total of four blue-eyed babies, but they are all in the light blue range...we have never had deep blue eyes. Cathy Perfect Spot Farm From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Tue Mar 27 03:16:16 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <08161681300329@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> Hello all, only 46 miles away, this fmd. It has also managed to jump a 40mile gap onto the Lake district fells. On the fells, the predominant sheep are Herdwick they "maintain" the land for the National Trust who look after these hills. The landscape will change forever if these sheep are removed. Dear knows what the tenant farmers here will do. Heard yesterday that the oldest Belted Galloway herd in the world at Kirkudbrightshire has now gone. It was 200 years of family work gone in 2 hours. This a major blow to the breed. Rare breeds have no escape valve, all are to be treated exactly alike, whether it will result in mear wipe-out or not. Susan From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 27 05:52:14 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] FMD Message-ID: <006601c0b6ab$fd15c8a0$1dc11cd0@oemcomputer> Two general comments re: the FMD crisis: First, due to the media coverage seizure of Vermont sheep for suspected "Mad Cow," I have found many, many people - even rural folks who should know better - have completlely confused MadCow and FMD. They have mish-moshed to the two together and come up with the idea that there is a "highly-contagious sheep disease in the US now that destroys people's brains if you eat the meat" kind of mentality. I think it is a good idea for all of us to corner our local newpaper editors and set the facts straight, Second, I just spoke, yesterday, with students who have just come back from a 10 day spring break. They travelled to England, France, and Amsterdam. Not *one* of them remembers being asked about visiting farms (one was asked if they were bringing back fruit), and not one of them was disinfected before leaving or upon arrival to the US. I have cancelled all visits to my farm from school groups. thom From joyew at mindspring.com Tue Mar 27 06:51:56 2001 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] FMD Message-ID: <3AC07EDC.63B24A90@mindspring.com> Susan, Now tragic, in fact it is more than than one can imagine. This thing is so insidious that it is wiping out so much that is of value, to the farmers, the breeders and the living history of some of our animals. It must be so difficult to give us an update on what is occurring, but so necessary. If nothing more maybe there is something to be learned from this. It seems though that once it is in very little can be done to stop it, it moves so rapidly. All of you are in our thoughts and prayers that as quick as it came it will stop. Edie, Joy Farm. From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Tue Mar 27 07:02:34 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] fmd Message-ID: <12023483800472@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> It has now been reported today that the fmd virus may have come in smuggled meat in a suitcase from Asia into a Chinese restaurant in the North West of England, and then into this pig-swill.The world is at our throats because of BSE, and the airports and importers still let infected foreign crap in. We have now to accept German beef, where BSE has taken hold. This is behond belief. We are trying to farm with both hands tied behind our backs, the red tape and paperwork takes up longer that looking after animals, and our wonderful government will import any crap going. Mr Blair is not interested in the farming industry, af far as the news goes, May 3rd is still a general election, and he will not declare a national emergency. On my 1pm news poor Dumfries and Galloway Council has to plead for money from him to continue to kill and bury the animals. At the momant the local council is footing the bill. We have over 600 confirmed fmd farms in UK now, and it is still spreading. This is my getting angry day, I was upset and down the last letter. Susan From wolfpen at rabun.net Tue Mar 27 07:42:13 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] size of lambs, ewe nutrition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200103271251.HAA07430@mail.rabun.net> I'm not sure what it means if one twin lamb is significantly larger than the other. I'd be interested in the answer. I do think that the size of a Jacob lamb is nowhere near as important as the vigor. In this breed, there is no rule that bigger is better. I am much more interested in the strength and vigor of a newborn lamb than I am in the birth weight. I used to weigh all my baby lambs but later just weighed any that weren't as active as the others. In Jacob lambs, I really don't think that we can always equate size with health. I realize that vigor is hard to define and for a comparative study (such as Mary Ellen's JRP) we do need concrete facts such as birth weights. I can just see us out there trying to measure which baby lamb jumped higher! I feed my pregnant ewes a mix of whole corn, whole oats, soybean meal, wheat bran and livestock molasses. I also feed alfalfa pellets and free choice hay. Depending on the season, they will usually be doing some grazing also. I start this about 6 weeks before the first ewe is due increasing gradually to 2/3 to 3/4 pound of the grain mix per ewe per day, divided into two feedings. I use 8 black tub feeders for 8 ewes, spread out so that all the ewes have a chance to eat. Feed troughs have not worked for me - there is always one ewe in there, eating and swinging her head side to side. Polite lambing ewes - I now can remember when one of my Jacobs lambed in the middle of the night! My favorite ewe decided to keep me humble and lamb at midnight. It was the day we had snow, rain, sleet and high winds. She did wait until the storm was over and the power came back on, so I guess she was trying to be polite! Linda On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:48:26 EST, wrote: > >First, I have heard that if a ewe bears twins and there is a fairly large >difference in the size of the lambs, that perhaps the ewe didn't receive >adequate nutrition during pregnancy. Is there any truth to this? My >crossbred ewe, who was bred to my Jacob ram, produced twin ewe lambs and one >was quite a bit larger than the other. (The smaller one was as vigorous, as >her larger sister) My purebred Jacob ewe produced twins that were almost >identical in size. Both ewes ate about the same thing during pregnancy. >Would this mean that the crossbred ewe would need more food than Jacobs, or >is this something that just happens, with no connection to nutrition? >Second, I would be interested in hearing what others view as the perfect diet >for pregnant/nursing ewes. > >Thanks. > >Sharon > >_______________________________________________ >Jacob-list mailing list >Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list Check out our 2001 Jacob Sheep lambs at: www.PatchworkFibers.com/lambs.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/483c7388/attachment.html From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Tue Mar 27 11:32:55 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Foot & Mouth Epidemic Message-ID: <001301c0b6db$94d8c0a0$c896453f@cyrix> Susan Russell & all, It is difficult to imagine the nightmare of having all the beautiful breeds of sheep and cattle in your country destroyed. When I think of England and Scotland, it is of a picturesque landscape with animals grazing peacefully. There must be something that we here in the U.S. can do to help those of you who are suffering through this. What would it take for your government to declare that you have a national crisis and set aside funds to try to help you recover from your losses? This horrible event can potentially affect our own farmers by lessening a demand for the grain we grow. We are all in this together. Those of us who enjoy spinning wool from rare breeds may never get the chance to spin Wensleydale, Herdwick, Teeswater, and others that we do not have here in the U.S. What if some of these breeds are completely destroyed? Let us get our heads together and try to figure out a way that we can help our fellow shepherds. Is there some type of fundraising that we can do, or a way to solicit help from our own government? Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/373a507e/attachment.htm From WenlochFrm at aol.com Tue Mar 27 11:37:06 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue-eyed Ram Lamb Message-ID: <38.13f3c252.27f21bb2@aol.com> In a message dated 3/26/01 6:48:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, pavel314@home.com writes: > I just noticed yesterday that little Nebuchadnezzar, the bottle lamb > whose mom almost died of late pregnancy ketosis, has blue eyes. Will > this stay with him into adulthood or will his eyes turn darker as he > matures? > > Raising Jacobs certainly changes your perspective, doesn't it? This > creature is a two-toned, four-horned sheep, but I can accept that; it's > the blue eyes that I find unusual. > > I have had blacks born with blue eyes, and some marbled, but in every case they have later changed to brown. Some blacks do retain the blue, though. This year I have a lilac lamb with china blue eyes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they don't change color. What do you mean by two-toned? Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/3894f551/attachment.html From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 27 15:56:18 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] USDA battle plan Message-ID: <00f601c0b700$5fce1c00$3e1761cc@oemcomputer> OK, Breeders, listen up (sorry to be blunt) but you MUST know what's going on here. I just got off thephone with the vets at the USDA in DC, who confirmed the following: The FIRST avenue attack for any suspected case of FMD in the United States *IS* the destruction of ALL livestock within at least 1.5 miles radius. However, in areas densely farmed communities, "that might be extended to five or even 10 miles!!! " There is no exemption for rare breeds. I STRONGLY recommend you get on the horn NOW to your congressmen and Senators to lobby for an exemtion for rare breeds. This is too serious to look the other way.... thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/9797a713/attachment.htm From WenlochFrm at aol.com Tue Mar 27 20:21:00 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] USDA battle plan Message-ID: <6d.116ccb99.27f2967c@aol.com> In a message dated 3/27/01 4:06:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, creagchild@monad.net writes: > > OK, Breeders, listen up (sorry to be blunt) but you MUST know what's going > on here. I just got off thephone with the vets at the USDA in DC, who > confirmed the following: > > The FIRST avenue attack for any suspected case of FMD in the United States > *IS* the destruction of ALL livestock within at least 1.5 miles radius. > However, in areas densely farmed communities, "that might be extended to > five or even 10 miles!!! " There is no exemption for rare breeds. > > I STRONGLY recommend you get on the horn NOW to your congressmen and > Senators to lobby for an exemtion for rare breeds. This is too serious to > look the other way.... > > thom > > > > I hate to be pessimistic, but I think we will have just about as much luck talking the USDA into sparing rare breeds as the UK did. It will be dejavu. Does anyone know what the ALBC is doing? I have read that the USDA is preparing vaccines. The vaccines are given to animals to form a firewall to contain the disease. Then it is my understanding that those animals that were vaccinated and healthy are destroyed, too, because they will test positive for the disease. Sad to say, but this is all about trade between countries and losing our FMD-free status. It is the same reason we are seeing the mass slaughter of healthy animals in the UK.. My little farm became off-limits two weeks ago to anyone, friends included, who have farm animals and I do not go to any other farms. My flock will be strictly isolated. No shows, no festivals for me this year until, or if, the coast is clear. And still the flock will not be safe from the USDA. I'm still praying for a miracle. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/9511df3c/attachment.html From WenlochFrm at aol.com Tue Mar 27 20:32:53 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue-eyed Ram Lamb Message-ID: <62.d180b18.27f29945@aol.com> In a message dated 3/27/01 11:40:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, WenlochFrm@aol.com writes: > . What do you mean by two-toned? > > Alrighty then, everyone can just forget that last question. I must have been brain dead this morning. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/971813ac/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Tue Mar 27 20:29:12 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] USDA battle plan Message-ID: <003001c0b726$7f5fd100$5c1761cc@oemcomputer> Does anyone know what the ALBC is doing? I have a call in to them to discuss "strategy." I have read that the USDA is preparing vaccines. The vaccines are given to animals to form a firewall to contain the disease. Then it is my understanding that those animals that were vaccinated and healthy are destroyed, too, because they will test positive for the disease. I asked about the vaccinations. The USDA vet told me that they have had the vaccines for 25 years, but it is the LAST tool they would even consider using. And still the flock will not be safe from the USDA. Just make sure you have a friend who can hide some lambs in a pinch :-) thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010327/5b75ec71/attachment.html From donnar at devtex.net Tue Mar 27 21:54:29 2001 From: donnar at devtex.net (donnar@devtex.net) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] attachments Message-ID: <221902001332825429109@devtex.net> Hi all, Something funny going on here. I am getting an attachment on every e-mail coming in on this list. Is anyone getting the same thing?? It seems to be growing in bytes. Earlier I noticed one had 1530, this evening one had 2360 bytes and the next one had 2370. I haven't opened any of these attachments, just delete the e-mails, because of so many viruses being attached to e-mails, it is frightening. I am wondering if you all are sending attachments or have noticed the same thing. Donna from Devine From stonecroft235 at juno.com Tue Mar 27 22:09:08 2001 From: stonecroft235 at juno.com (stonecroft235@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010327.220910.-267179.0.stonecroft235@juno.com> Joan F. mentioned she is isolating her farm and will attend no festivals. I also am trying to figure out what OUR position should be - and we live in the heart of "dairy" country - cows everywhere!! How do you isolate your farm - like what about the meter reader? What about the UPS truck? What about vehicles driving in and out (when avian flu hit our county a few years ago the feed trucks upon leaving a farm had to have all the truck tires sprayed down with disinfectant - and the driver had to change clothes)? Our roads are used by Amish carriages, drawn by horses who share barns with cows....and our roads are used by farmers towing manure spreaders and slurry wagons, dripping their contents all along the way. We have a large deer population in this area - we frequently see them mornings & evenings, and have seen them jumping in and out of the meadow - a handful of deer cover alot of ground each day browsing/grazing and could potentially infect a HUGE area - so what about the deer? What about flocks of birds such as sparrows or pigeons who love to hang out in barns/barnyards? What about the Agway or the farm supply store where all farmers go to buy their stuff, wearing their shoes/boots with "you know what" on the bottom? And if the organism for FMD can survive in the human respiratory system for 5 days - and potentially infect during that time - well, what about WalMart, or the mall, or the supermarket where I would be breathing everyone else's exhaled air and potentially taking in an organism I could then carry home? I am afraid of this thing - we have family members who had to destroy tens of thousands of chickens with the avian flu thing, with military trucks transporting the dead chickens & financial ruin --- but I am trying to understand/know what a rational approach is. We are dependent upon buying hay - hay is grown by farmers - how do I handle that? The more I think about it, the more the problem grows. Yesterday I received the Maryland Sheep & Wool Festival book featuring a Jacob sheep on the cover and I have been very much looking forward to this festival - including the Jacob show......we weren't planning to show any sheep, but how risky is it to attend? Is it correct to conclude that concentrations of cloven-hooved animals (like at fairs, festivals) increases the risk of an outbreak - even though FMD has not surfaced here yet? With every corner of the world being so accessible and FMD existing in many places most of the time - how have we avoided an epidemic in the US in recent years? Many agricultural experts from the US regularly travel to Third World countries to share their expertise - how is it that FMD wasn't brought along home on one of those excursions? If the potential exists here for an agricultural holocaust, surely technology could spare our breed (and others) - like, should we be collecting semen, collecting ova - and basically cold storing the breed until this blows over and then conceiving little Jacobs in the laboratory? Is technology the answer rather than exempting rare breeds? Well, obviously I am thinking out loud and I guess some of my questions have no real answers. This situation reminds of another crisis we had here in southeastern PA over 20 years ago - Three Mile Island nuclear power plant had a core meltdown, with the potential for a major disaster which could have killed and devastated a huge area including the Susquehanna River. Radiation was released, people were urged to stay indoors & to keep cattle indoors - and we all struggled with knowing what to do -- do we leave, do we stay - and the most perplexing question we were faced with then and even now 20 years later - WERE WE BEING TOLD THE TRUTH?? Similarly, what really is the situation regarding FMD - and what should be our response? Interestingly, here in the heart of cow country the local media isn't reporting much at all. Sue Martin Stonecroft ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Wed Mar 28 03:16:10 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <08161064100713@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> About the burning, apparently the BSE carry-on is still casting a pall over the country, so the cows are being burned. Only sheep, are being buried, apparently that is enough with lime added. What a letter to write................. Susan From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 28 12:40:42 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Midgets:) Message-ID: <004901c0b7ae$37af4600$7367e2d1@Melanie> Following the conversation about different sized twins, we had a pair born yesterday, both female, one was 5lbs, one was 3lbs. She is the smallest lamb I've ever seen, so we have named her Bridget (the Midget). What she lacks in size she makes up for in "spunk" and is a very sturdy determined little lady, who stretches to reach Mom, and succeeds. So we asked ourselves why we got this midget and the size difference, after several of you believed it to be nutritional. Like someone else who disputed this, we had fed the ewe in question exactly the same as the lady in the next stall who had a nice uniform pair of twins, 7lbs each. The difference is that the midget's Mom had had an "off-season" lamb last Fall, and was supplying milk during the early part of her pregnancy. I must therefore conclude it is nutritional, in a way, as she was feeding three, something had to give! Also, following the conversation about lamb fleeces, which I read with great interest, these mismatched twins have totally different fleeces. The larger one has the ideal tiny tight curls, while the smaller one has a very "loose" shaggy fleece more like an Angora goat kid. Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com To think and act with integrity requires that we fully experience the tensions of competing thoughts and demands. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010328/4daeb6d5/attachment.htm From mcmcc at ucinet.com Wed Mar 28 13:03:09 2001 From: mcmcc at ucinet.com (Mary McCracken) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Midgets:) Message-ID: <001701c0b7b1$5a39b680$40b523d0@oemcomputer> I have seen more differences in fleece between twins than size in my Jacob birthings. Have at times had considerable size differences in my larger sheep. Had a set of triplets with one much smaller and tried to foster it onto a mother with one but it didn't work that time. I should have suspected with the ewe I tried to trick. She is a trickSTER and was not to BE tricked. mary -----Original Message----- From: Chovhani To: Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:43 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] Midgets:) Following the conversation about different sized twins, we had a pair born yesterday, both female, one was 5lbs, one was 3lbs. She is the smallest lamb I've ever seen, so we have named her Bridget (the Midget). What she lacks in size she makes up for in "spunk" and is a very sturdy determined little lady, who stretches to reach Mom, and succeeds. So we asked ourselves why we got this midget and the size difference, after several of you believed it to be nutritional. Like someone else who disputed this, we had fed the ewe in question exactly the same as the lady in the next stall who had a nice uniform pair of twins, 7lbs each. The difference is that the midget's Mom had had an "off-season" lamb last Fall, and was supplying milk during the early part of her pregnancy. I must therefore conclude it is nutritional, in a way, as she was feeding three, something had to give! Also, following the conversation about lamb fleeces, which I read with great interest, these mismatched twins have totally different fleeces. The larger one has the ideal tiny tight curls, while the smaller one has a very "loose" shaggy fleece more like an Angora goat kid. Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com To think and act with integrity requires that we fully experience the tensions of competing thoughts and demands. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010328/bd1c9e43/attachment.html From bissell at usit.net Wed Mar 28 20:56:09 2001 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] My understandings of the "battle" Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010328205338.0555c430@pop.usit.net> >Well - I will try to simplyify my understanting of what is going on. 1 - FMD and "Mad Cow" and Scrapie are all three cousins - or may half-brothers - or a mixture of the two!!! Anyway coming from the same background any of the three is NOT something that you want in your flock - whether goats or pigs or sheep or cattle!!!! For sure in the US if Scrapie or Mad Cow or FMD shows up, your flock is history and everything within a certain radius of your farm. And for someone who really does not like to play "what ifs" if you do in this case and a new variant of Jacob Cruetzfeld shows up in the US from the USDA's non actions what do you think would happen then??? All in all in this particular situation I feel that they are on the right track. IF something shows up in my flocks on my land then rules and law should prevail. This is something that we really do not know enough about to take a chance. Or at least I personally do NOT want to eat cheese from the Fresian Sheep flock from Vt much less eat a lamb chop from them!!!! There have been English sheep flock in recent times that have been imported into Canada and show positive for "scrapie" BUT this test could have been also FMD or Mad Cow variant of some kind - 2 - If GB vaccinates any of its cattle or goats or sheep THEN they or their by products would NEVER be allowed into the US - there is NOT WAY to tell if the positive test results was from an infected or vaccinated animal Now - if I do not understand things right please let me know. I am learning as many of you all about what is going on.===== ============ Edd Bissell New Market, Tn. www.eddbissell.com From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Thu Mar 29 07:16:50 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] petition Message-ID: <12165024201006@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> My friend and ex-list member gave me this site to look at.Concerns the Vaccination of healthy livestock. www.PetitionOnline.com/FandM/ Susan From melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 29 09:06:40 2001 From: melanie.boxall at sympatico.ca (Chovhani) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] petition References: <12165024201006@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> Message-ID: <003801c0b859$7bb910a0$8067e2d1@Melanie> Vaccine probably isn't the answer. First off the immunity takes time to take hold, historically for example the plague spread to fast for inoculations to have been effective even if they'd had one. An article in the US said they will not vaccinate now because in a few cases it can cause it to erupt in an animal that had been exposed but never came down with it and since they have zero active cases now they are afraid to take a chance. The holistic vets I work with believe the vaccine does far more harm than good. An example is Dr. Gerhard Buchwald MD in his book Impfen - Das Gesch?ft mit der Angst (Vaccination - A Business Based on Fear) reports that there were many more outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease in European countries where cattle was vaccinated against the disease than in the European countries which didn't vaccinate. It was only when the use of the vaccine was prohibited in the European Union that there were no further outbreaks (similar to smallpox which only disappeared once mass vaccination programmes were replaced by strict quarantine and disinfection measures). The vaccine against the swinepest was prohibited in the European Union for similar reasons. Melanie http://www.geocities.com/onionperogie http://earthhome.tripod.com To think and act with integrity requires that we fully experience the tensions of competing thoughts and demands. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Russell To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] petition My friend and ex-list member gave me this site to look at.Concerns the Vaccination of healthy livestock. www.PetitionOnline.com/FandM/ Susan _______________________________________________ Jacob-list mailing list Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From sbennett at teleport.com Thu Mar 29 09:44:17 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Midgets/fleece Message-ID: <20010329144715.EECDB5367E@pairlist.net> My son has an older ewe with a fleece that is long (6 plus inches) and loosely curled/crimped. She produces offspring with similiar fleeces. She and her offspring have won fleece competitions. I just sent off samples for micron testing and included a sample of her fleece for more information on that type. It is lovely to spin. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre > Also, following the conversation about lamb fleeces, which I read with >great interest, these mismatched twins have totally different fleeces. The >larger one has the ideal tiny tight curls, while the smaller one has a >very "loose" shaggy fleece more like an Angora goat kid. > > Melanie From srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk Thu Mar 29 09:31:01 2001 From: srussell at lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk (Susan Russell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <14310181901063@lib.south-ayrshire.gov.uk> >Have a look at www.sheepdrove.com > >The government need to get their act together. >The big \JCB digger company offered Maff 50 diggers complete with drivers >and free fuel last Thursday.They still have not heard a thing from them. And >all these poor animals are still piling up...waiting to die, or waiting to >be buried. > >Susan > >. From bissell at usit.net Thu Mar 29 10:56:13 2001 From: bissell at usit.net (Edd Bissell) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] My understandings of the "battle" In-Reply-To: <003f01c0b850$c6c704c0$4752c6d1@lambfarm> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010328205338.0555c430@pop.usit.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010329105518.05606af0@pop.usit.net> At 07:27 AM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote: >I think you are a bit confused, Edd. -------- Thank you - now I THINK I understand a little bit more - appreciate the post. ==== From creagchild at monad.net Thu Mar 29 18:57:24 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Lambing difficulties Message-ID: <012501c0b8ac$01410d20$ccb700d0@oemcomputer> I just came back from one of those awful lambing situations - worst one I've ever had to deal with. I came back from work to find that one of my ewes that i purchased last summer (so i had no clue as to lambing history) had begun labor hours earlier (apparently) and had given up. One head and one leg were protruding, and the lamb was dead. Mom had ceased pushing. It turns out that the lamb was huge, and had one front leg bent back at the shoulder. The ewes pelvic bones were way to small for this lamb to pass through like this. After quite a while of pushing and turning and repositioning, my son and I pulled the lamb. It weighed 15 3/4 pounds, and I swear the poor ewe's pelvic bones were barely big enough for my fist. Now, some questions for you all. I do not think I overfed the ewes during pregnancy, as most of my other ewes had normal (or small) lambs. The two ewes that had huge lambs (one 13, and this one) both came from the same line of sheep. Have any of you found that particular lines of sheep have trouble, or deliver larger lambs than most? Do you have any suggestions to prevent this in the future? This "delivery" date, incidentally, was 151 days after breeding. thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010329/8fefb0c1/attachment.htm From WenlochFrm at aol.com Fri Mar 30 13:17:21 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] First possible case of FMD in US Message-ID: <18.af59ccd.27f627b1@aol.com> N.C. Seeks Foot-and-Mouth Tests RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) - State agriculture officials said today they are testing for a suspected case of foot-and-mouth disease. Samples of dead hog tissue have been sent to federal agriculture officials to be tested for the disease, a spokesman for the state Department of Agriculture said. The suspicious case is in Martin County. Tissue samples from a dead hog were flown last night from Robersonville Packing, to a USDA lab in New York, spokesman Jim Knight said. ``We're testing for foot-and-mouth. We have a suspected foreign animal disease outbreak,'' he said. ``At this point, we're just waiting for test results.'' Full Story -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010330/e46a7d6c/attachment.html From WenlochFrm at aol.com Fri Mar 30 13:25:32 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] The full story Message-ID: <8b.477ad60.27f6299c@aol.com> N.C. Seeks Foot-and-Mouth Tests .c The Associated Press RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) - State agriculture officials said Friday they are testing for a suspected case of foot-and-mouth disease. Samples of dead hog tissue have been sent to federal agriculture officials to be tested for the disease, a spokesman for the state Department of Agriculture said. The suspicious case is in Martin County. Tissue samples from a dead hog were flown Thursday night from Robersonville Packing, to a USDA lab in New York, department spokesman Jim Knight said. ``We're testing for foot-and-mouth. We have a suspected foreign animal disease outbreak,'' he said. ``At this point, we're just waiting for test results.'' Knight said a state agriculture inspector at the packing plant in Robersonville, 78 miles east of Raleigh, saw dead animals and became concerned because of heightened awareness in the state about the disease. She contacted a USDA inspector who agreed samples should be taken. They were flown to the isolated federal lab on Plum Island, in the Long Island Sound, the only facility where foot-and-mouth testing is done. Another sample was taken from a Sampson County market, southeast of Raleigh, and sent to the federal lab, Knight said. He said the packing plant and the Sampson County market may both have been served by the same trucking company. ``The hauling equipment may have been to both locations,'' he said. The Robersonville plant has been quarantined. AP-NY-03-30-01 1249EST Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010330/735725fe/attachment.htm From oberlef at desupernet.net Fri Mar 30 12:12:25 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lambing thoughts... Message-ID: <000201c0b947$06c27e00$3a202940@pavilion> Listers- The increase in our Jacob flock numbers makes a big difference during lambing...you really get to see the diversity out there, and get a better feel for what each ram produces. On the other hand, documenting becomes a real challange! Our count is now at 8E lambs, 10R...consistantly twins except for a yearling and one ewe that we were planning to give with her lamb as a pet to a relative. What a fun gift to give. Quite the hit. 4 ewes and 4 yearlings to go. Two of the ewes fooled me by getting immense... was convinced they would triplet, at least Rachel. Both gave birth to twins, albeit larger than most. Anna, a first-timer and Rachel, an 8 yr old, birthed within a few days of each other and both had twins. With Anna, it was difficult to even see she was pregnant, but Rachel caused groans from any female on-lookers. I was convinced Anna would single, Rachel would triplet. *smile* I have already learned never to venture a guess with sheep and especially Jacobs...but it is just so tempting! Belinda, the other really large one, gave birth this morning to the first of Abner's lambs, one ewe, one 4 horn ram...both very pretty and maybe on the larger side. Looking back, I would consider both Rachel and Belinda to be the bossiest of the ewes. Guess they just threw their weight around a bit more for the food. Personally, I agree with Linda B when she says that large lambs are not the goal. Rachel's birthing was in the normal range, but she did have to work harder to get those 2 big ram lambs out. I think their horn buds caught a bit too. Have you noticed horns being more developed on those larger lambs? Interestingly, Anna's lambs were both good sized. I guess she just tucked them up in there. Could not believe the difference. As far as the blue eye topic, the last ewe lamb born has distinctly blue eyes fading into brown around the outside. Very pretty. Both parents have black wool and brown eyes although one of the sire's eyes are marbled and the ewe's are kind of light. Joan Franklin, was it you mentioned having the experience with blue eyes changing to brown...any predictions for this situation? Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane farm, Hanover, PA http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/lambpage.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010330/4b66b22b/attachment.html From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Fri Mar 30 16:01:15 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Suspected FMD in U. S. Message-ID: <001001c0b95c$9062d5a0$c896453f@cyrix> Joan, thanks for the post, but it leaves me a bit confused as to what is going on. Were dead hogs seen at a farm or hog facility, or did they die at the packing plant prior to slaughter? Hogs that are highly muscled are susceptible to a stress syndrome (usually the Pietrain breed or part Pietrain), and can drop dead if put in stressful situations, especially if subjected to heat. I hope that there is some other explanation other than FMD. I recently spoke with one of my fiber processors, and she said that her husband had just returned from Ireland, although had not visited any farms while there. He flew into the Memphis airport and there were NO precautions taken as far as fumigation or whatever means they use to ensure that no foreign virus is brought into the U.S. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010330/942f0987/attachment.htm From far4 at cornell.edu Fri Mar 30 17:33:31 2001 From: far4 at cornell.edu (Floyd) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] First possible case of FMD in US In-Reply-To: <18.af59ccd.27f627b1@aol.com> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1155 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010330/135e35ba/attachment.bin From oberlef at desupernet.net Sat Mar 31 07:17:05 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] shearing day. Message-ID: <000201c0b9dc$97ecdc00$60202940@pavilion> Yesterday was shearing day. Fascinating! Since we purchased an entire flock of sheep last year, this was the first shearing/first lambing for most. (A strange time to shear, but Tom Horton ran into problems keeping his original appointment. It went well anyway.) Don't you think those two events really help you know members of the flock? I felt like yesterday I could hardly keep up with the info I was gathering on each sheep as it went through...will have to go through the fleeces again, but think I gave them a pretty good skirting. One thing I wanted to add about fleece types...I have found Ingrid's classification of birth fleeces invaluable, but also have noticed some primative lambs are born with a very hairy coat which sheds out in handfuls at a few months old. Gertie, one of our lambs from last year had a birth coat like that, but her fleece at shearing was very soft, very pretty I thought. More dense and fine than some. Maybe it would be classified as a type D lamb fleece? I think that the big advantage of type A fleece is that it is easier to predict. But do you notice that most commercial breeds are born with type A? Most of the lambs in our MD flock are born with tight curls. I think it would be sad to cancel out some other more Jacoby types, just because others are easier to predict. At this point, it amazes me how many fleece types are out there, even in our own flock. Another thought...I am curious about tattletale signs of crimp on lambs. One of our lambs was born with a classic type A lamb fleece...very tight curls in both black and white. Her brother was born with curls also but these curls were looser. A totally different look. Does this have to do with crimp? Or do you watch to see the wool the grows beneath the birth curl. Any experience, fiber people? Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm, Hanover, PA http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/chicory.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/54684bcc/attachment.htm From locohack at sunlink.net Sat Mar 31 08:16:22 2001 From: locohack at sunlink.net (Lonny Hackenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Thanks for the Information Message-ID: <4120013631131622740@sunlink.net> Hello All, Thanks for your recent responses to my inquiry of "My Own Survey." I found that I am really in line with what I have been trying to do, but not in a good location to do it. We live in heavy farm land and so Jacob Sheep are looked upon as a commodity. I have reached my limit in building my flock and was just hoping that I was just doing something wrong to market them. We have a beautiful bunch of 2 and 4 horned lambs. A few I think are outstanding. I have no choice but to band the rams and send them off to auction as eating lamb in our area is just not a common thing. I have taken the outlook as, I do have my flock to enjoy and play with. I have done what I can in my little way to conserve a few more Jacobs. THANKS AGAIN for your input. Sincerely, Connie Jacob Sheep, Miniature Fainting Goats, Arabian Horses and Golden Retrievers --- Lonny Hackenburg --- locohack@sunlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/dc65cc2e/attachment.html From oberlef at desupernet.net Sat Mar 31 08:28:24 2001 From: oberlef at desupernet.net (dave & katrina) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:42 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Thanks for the Information References: <4120013631131622740@sunlink.net> Message-ID: <001101c0b9e6$776fb4c0$65202940@pavilion> Hi Lonny- Any chance you could summarize some of the feedback people sent you? As in no names but price ranges, practices etc? Also, where did you say you were from? I think the info would be interesting. Katrina Lefever ----- Original Message ----- From: Lonny Hackenburg To: Jacob-list Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 8:16 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] Thanks for the Information Hello All, Thanks for your recent responses to my inquiry of "My Own Survey." I found that I am really in line with what I have been trying to do, but not in a good location to do it. We live in heavy farm land and so Jacob Sheep are looked upon as a commodity. I have reached my limit in building my flock and was just hoping that I was just doing something wrong to market them. We have a beautiful bunch of 2 and 4 horned lambs. A few I think are outstanding. I have no choice but to band the rams and send them off to auction as eating lamb in our area is just not a common thing. I have taken the outlook as, I do have my flock to enjoy and play with. I have done what I can in my little way to conserve a few more Jacobs. THANKS AGAIN for your input. Sincerely, Connie Jacob Sheep, Miniature Fainting Goats, Arabian Horses and Golden Retrievers --- Lonny Hackenburg --- locohack@sunlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/793b57f1/attachment.htm From spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com Sat Mar 31 10:25:56 2001 From: spahrfarm at dragonbbs.com (Jim Spahr) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Suspected FMD Message-ID: <000d01c0b9f6$e35892a0$bd96453f@cyrix> It is certainly good news to hear that the swine test results came back negative. The report caused a .05 cents/bu. loss on the corn we sold yesterday when the market was expected to be high that day! If FMD did enter the U.S., the impact would be devastating to the agricultural community. I hope that something is being done to help other countries who are experiencing such losses. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/550b5db2/attachment.html From runzicker at erols.com Sat Mar 31 11:33:04 2001 From: runzicker at erols.com (Royal Unzicker) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Large lambs Message-ID: <004401c0ba00$434f2300$b0613bd0@runzicker> Hi Thom, ( and others) I don't really know if huge lambs are more closely related to certain lines of sheep, nutrition, both and/or other factors. I know we both got ewes from Dan Kennedy. My ewe from him had a 10.5 ewe lamb. Not as huge as yours but certainly one of the larger Jacob lambs I have ever had even for a single. I don't know if your ewes with large lambs were from Dan or not. The one I got was Northcote breeding so she may not have been related anyway. Just thought I'd pass it on for what ever it is worth. The lamb has what appears will be a great spinning fleece (like her mom). I thought she was a four horn but when I caught her to weigh her at 60 days, I discovered she is as five horn. I'll be curious to how they develop. For those of you who show your sheep and/or attend various festivals, I am curious what your thoughts/plans are about going this year with all the "stuff" going around about FMD. Royal -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/27708bb4/attachment.htm From creagchild at monad.net Sat Mar 31 11:39:27 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Large lambs Message-ID: <007e01c0ba01$27b9de40$fac11cd0@oemcomputer> Royal (and all) Both of my SuperLambs were from Dan's Killorglin girls, but I used one ram on both of them, so its hard to pinpoint whether its in the rams genes, the girls genes, or something else; since I fed everyone the same I'm very curious. Do you think the change in eating habits, vitamins in the hay, etc., between PEI and the US could actually be a contributing factor? As for the shows....aarrgh.....I am planning to attend Maryland only with rovings, not any sheep, and my wife is nervous about even that....I've pretty much decided against Massachusetts (end of May), and I'm withholding judgement on NH and NewEngland rare Breeds pending daily "news." Not a pretty season. thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/1157657e/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 31 11:53:58 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Large lambs In-Reply-To: <004401c0ba00$434f2300$b0613bd0@runzicker> Message-ID: <200103311703.MAA04430@mail.rabun.net> I think if you will go back and look over some of Dan's posts, he mentioned 10 to 11 lbs lambs as the norm at his place. Linda On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 11:33:04 -0500, Royal Unzicker wrote: > Hi Thom, ( and others) > I don't really know if huge lambs are more closely related to certain lines of sheep, >nutrition, both and/or other factors. I know we both got ewes from Dan Kennedy. My ewe >from him had a 10.5 ewe lamb. Not as huge as yours but certainly one of the larger Jacob >lambs I have ever had even for a single. I don't know if your ewes with large lambs were >from Dan or not. The one I got was Northcote breeding so she may not have been related >anyway. Just thought I'd pass it on for what ever it is worth. The lamb has what appears >will be a great spinning fleece (like her mom). I thought she was a four horn but when I >caught her to weigh her at 60 days, I discovered she is as five horn. I'll be curious to >how they develop. > > For those of you who show your sheep and/or attend various festivals, I am curious what >your thoughts/plans are about going this year with all the "stuff" going around about FMD. > Royal > Check out our 2001 Jacob Sheep lambs at: www.PatchworkFibers.com/lambs.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/b9457f60/attachment.htm From messen at socket.net Sat Mar 31 12:24:06 2001 From: messen at socket.net (Mark Essen) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Suspected FMD References: <000d01c0b9f6$e35892a0$bd96453f@cyrix> Message-ID: <017d01c0ba07$656c2ee0$64e1fea9@oemcomputer> In response to Mary's concern about how economically devastating de-population can be on a farm, I was wondering something also. Are the farmers being compensated for lost animals in Europe? If so, at a fair rate? Does anybody know what the US or Canadian policies would be for this? I do know that the US government would pay for scrapie depopulation at one time. Mark Essen Famous Acres 6701 County Road 353 Fulton, Mo. 65251 (573)642-0350 messen@socket.net Jacobs 4-Horn Sheep, Pygmy Goats, Pyrenees, Peafowl, Highland Cattle, Yak, Emu, and Fallow Deer all living together in the Kingdom of Callaway ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Spahr To: Jacob List Members Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: [Jacob-list] Suspected FMD It is certainly good news to hear that the swine test results came back negative. The report caused a .05 cents/bu. loss on the corn we sold yesterday when the market was expected to be high that day! If FMD did enter the U.S., the impact would be devastating to the agricultural community. I hope that something is being done to help other countries who are experiencing such losses. Mary Spahr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/f99210ef/attachment.html From GBAnderson at UCDavis.Edu Sat Mar 31 12:42:45 2001 From: GBAnderson at UCDavis.Edu (Anderson, Gary B.) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Fairs, Shows and FMD Message-ID: <412D098B2703D311AD74005004774DCFB2F80B@asmail.ucdavis.edu> Several messages have appeared recently regarding the risks associated with exhibiting sheep at summer shows. As the chair of a university department that manages herds and flocks of all livestock species used in teaching, research and outreach, during the past week I have had to make decisions regarding approaches to reduce the risk of exposure to FMD. I have taken the advice of the California Department of Food and Agriculture (CDFA). Our most sweeping policy change has been to close our animal facilities to international visitors and people returning from aboard; for both groups the restriction affects only individuals who have been in the U.S. for fewer than 5 days. Implementation has been a challenge, since the campus attracts large numbers of international visitors. I hope that we are able to lift the restriction soon but will rely on the advice of veterinary professionals. I am assisting the hosts of the 2001 JSBA meeting in Lodi, CA and am doubly concerned that the correct decisions be made regarding bringing sheep to the June 9 meeting. Again I have turned to CDFA recommendations, which state that health surveillance, facilities planning, and common sense can provide a safe environment for bringing together animals from different sources. For now, this is the route we will take. As conditions change (improve, I hope), plans will be reconsidered and revised as appropriate. CDFA recommendations are based on the knowledge that no FMD cases have been diagnosed in the U.S. for decades. Some breeders will prefer to reduce the likelihood of exposure to near zero by staying home and keeping their sheep at home. But at this point veterinary experts do not believe that this level of precaution is essential. The CDFA website regarding recommendations for exhibiting animals at summer fairs and shows is as follows: http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/animal/animal_health/ahweb/pdf%20files/fair%20recomme ndations%20a3.pdf From creagchild at monad.net Sat Mar 31 13:23:27 2001 From: creagchild at monad.net (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Large lambs Message-ID: <00cd01c0ba0f$aee08780$fac11cd0@oemcomputer> I think if you will go back and look over some of Dan's posts, he mentioned 10 to 11 lbs lambs as the norm at his place. Linda Wow...Linda, did you do that from memory?! I nominate you as the List Historian! :-) thom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/176c1686/attachment.htm From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 31 13:30:02 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Large lambs In-Reply-To: <00cd01c0ba0f$aee08780$fac11cd0@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <200103311839.NAA04854@mail.rabun.net> Funny! The reason I remember it is that another list member and I discussed it at the time. And I'm still trying to remember where I put that extra set of car keys! Linda On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 13:23:27 -0500, Thomas Simmons wrote: >I think if you will go back and look over some of Dan's posts, he mentioned 10 to 11 lbs >lambs as the norm at his place. >Linda Wow...Linda, did you do that from memory?! I nominate you as the List Historian! >:-) thom Check out our 2001 Jacob Sheep lambs at: www.PatchworkFibers.com/lambs.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/2d5948b6/attachment.html From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 31 13:49:36 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] shearing day. Message-ID: <200103311858.NAA04946@mail.rabun.net> Katrina, You've mentioned some things that I see here . I get lambs with a classic type A fleece per Ingrid's description. I also get lambs that have a frosting of hair, underneath which is visible a layer of even, crimpy wool. On these the hair is fairly light, almost a halo. The hair is shed within a month or so. These fleeces often turn out to be every bit as nice as the ones born with no hair frosting. I agree with you that is harder to predict the ones that will end up with a longer, silker fleece. I've had a few that had almost straight - just slightly wavy - fleece at birth. Upon shearing, there will be about 1/2 inch of straight wool and then the rest is wavy with mild crimp. I find that if the wool around the neck and shoulders is an indicator of what the adult fleece will look like. That's just my own opinion based on limited observation. There is a good article in the JSC Journal June 2000 about fleece development as related to hair and wool. Linda Linda On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:17:05 -0500, dave & katrina wrote: > > >One thing I wanted to add about fleece types...I have found Ingrid's classification of birth >fleeces invaluable, but also have noticed some primative lambs are born with a very hairy >coat which sheds out in handfuls at a few months old. Gertie, one of our lambs from last >year had a birth coat like that, but her fleece at shearing was very soft, very pretty I >thought. More dense and fine than some. Maybe it would be classified as a type D lamb >fleece? I think that the big advantage of type A fleece is that it is easier to predict. >But do you notice that most commercial breeds are born with type A? Most of the lambs in >our MD flock are born with tight curls. I think it would be sad to cancel out some other >more Jacoby types, just because others are easier to predict. At this point, it amazes me >how many fleece types are out there, even in our own flock. Another thought...I am curious >about tattletale signs of crimp on lambs. One of our lambs was born with a classic type A >lamb fleece...very tight curls in both black and white. Her brother was born with curls >also but these curls were looser. A totally different look. Does this have to do with >crimp? Or do you watch to see the wool the grows beneath the birth curl. Any experience, >fiber people? > > Katrina Lefever, Chicory Lane Farm, Hanover, PA > http://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/chicory.htmhttp://wwwfac.wmdc.edu/ HTMLpages/Graduate/TI/pages/lefever/chicory.htm > Check out our 2001 Jacob Sheep lambs at: www.PatchworkFibers.com/lambs.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/028f4862/attachment.htm From sbennett at teleport.com Sat Mar 31 14:07:27 2001 From: sbennett at teleport.com (sbennett) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Large lambs Message-ID: <20010331191026.E36D0536AD@pairlist.net> >For those of you who show your sheep and/or attend various festivals, I am >curious what your thoughts/plans are about going this year with all the >"stuff" going around about FMD. >Royal > So far, the United States is FMD free. I'm not changing my show plans until I feel I have a reason to. Debbie Bennett Feral Fibre From wolfpen at rabun.net Sat Mar 31 15:48:31 2001 From: wolfpen at rabun.net (linda) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <200103312057.PAA05520@mail.rabun.net> There has been some talk about the JSBA holding the AGM in the SE district in 2001. Some tentative thought has been to hold it at the Western NC fairgrounds in Asheville. I don't think I have the time or ability to host it but I'd love to see it in this area. Is anyone in the district considering hosting it? Could it be hosted as a group effort? I'd be more than willing to help in whatever way I can. I'm not sure if this is Jacob-list conversation, so feel free to email me privately. Linda Check out our 2001 Jacob Sheep lambs at: www.PatchworkFibers.com/lambs.html Check out our 2001 Jacob Sheep lambs at: www.PatchworkFibers.com/lambs.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/7619b077/attachment.html From wheaten at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 31 17:16:01 2001 From: wheaten at bellatlantic.net (Dr. David R. Lincicome) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Blue-eyed Ram Lamb References: <3ABF2FC6.90C67FC2@home.com> Message-ID: <3AC65721.57BA2A17@bellatlantic.net> 1707 hrs/Saturday 31 March 2001 Blue eyes in Jacob sheep occurs. As a matter of fact I had developed a line of blue-eyed Jacobs before my flock was sold. It is assumed that blue-eyedness in Jacobs follows the same rule as in human genetics. The gene for blue eyes is recessive and only when matched does the blue eye appear. The blue eyed condition is very attractive and should not be discriminated against. It would be interesting for someone to do the necessary matings to determine definitively whether the blue eye gene operates in the same manner as in human beings. David Richard Lincicome, Ph.D.,PAS, DACAP Pavel wrote: > I just noticed yesterday that little Nebuchadnezzar, the bottle lamb > whose mom almost died of late pregnancy ketosis, has blue eyes. Will > this stay with him into adulthood or will his eyes turn darker as he > matures? > > Raising Jacobs certainly changes your perspective, doesn't it? This > creature is a two-toned, four-horned sheep, but I can accept that; it's > the blue eyes that I find unusual. > > Paul Intihar > Rainbow Farm > Joppa, Maryland > Website: http://members.home.net/rbfarm/ > > (Just passed 5,000 hits on the website!) > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From pavel314 at home.com Sat Mar 31 18:47:24 2001 From: pavel314 at home.com (Pavel) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Maryland FMD Site Message-ID: <3AC66C8C.D389DE90@home.com> The Maryland Sheep and Wool Festival posted information about F&M on their website. You can find it at: http://www.sheepandwoolfestival.org/foot_and_mouth.htm pli From WenlochFrm at aol.com Sat Mar 31 20:31:35 2001 From: WenlochFrm at aol.com (WenlochFrm@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] lambing thoughts... Message-ID: In a message dated 3/30/01 1:34:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, oberlef@desupernet.net writes: > As far as the blue eye topic, the last ewe lamb born has distinctly blue > eyes fading into brown around the outside. Very pretty. Both parents have > black wool and brown eyes although one of the sire's eyes are marbled and > the ewe's are kind of light. Joan Franklin, was it you mentioned having > the experience with blue eyes changing to brown...any predictions for this > situation? > No predictions, but I think you have a better chance than I did as all of my adults were brown eyed. If the sire has marbled eyes, then I think there is a good chance that your lamb will keep its marbled eyes, too. The first ram lamb born here had one pale blue eye and the other a deep blue. The paler eye took longer to change to brown. Also, the paler eye had no eye patch. I remember someone else on the list mentioning seeing the same thing with one of their sheep. Joan Franklin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010331/0f98d9b7/attachment.htm From joyew at mindspring.com Sat Mar 31 20:39:48 2001 From: joyew at mindspring.com (Wayne & Edie Van Valkenburg) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Md. Message-ID: <3AC686E4.CA109F65@mindspring.com> Hi Royal, We are still planning to go. We figure will will make our decision not to go on the Thursday night before the festival. this way we are ready and can easily back out if Md.'s web site or the atmosphere in the country says it would be suicide to go. Our local vet feels it will take a miracle to keep it out. Usually it is not the legal ways that bring it in. It is an deliberate or unconscious act that start everything in the food chain of other livestock than everyone else pays. I hope all our agencies have learned from England's devastation and can prevent some of it here. Edie, Joy Farm From sunbriar at juno.com Sat Mar 31 21:27:28 2001 From: sunbriar at juno.com (sunbriar@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] shows Message-ID: <20010331.213947.-384455.5.sunbriar@juno.com> Hi, I am planning on going to MD, If FMD came to this country I could lose all my sheep even if I didnt go to any shows, so i figure I might as well go! Every year at MD I have brought 4' x 20 tarps and draped them around my pens so no sheep can touch noses with my sheep, I plan on doing the same this year. Im also bring lambs to sell, hoping that i wont bring any home with me at all. (4 jacobs, 3 ewes and 1 nice 4 horn ram lamb) I am NOT bringing any of my breeding stock/adults with me. Kathy ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From humbug7 at worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 21 20:51:02 2001 From: humbug7 at worldnet.att.net (Kathryn Shirley) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] [Fwd: worth a few hoots of laughter] Message-ID: <3AB95A86.C67C7396@worldnet.att.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Kathryn Shirley Subject: worth a few hoots of laughter Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:50:04 -0500 Size: 2418 Url: http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/jacob-list/attachments/20010321/8ed8de3f/attachment.mht From gary792 at iname.com Thu Mar 22 20:34:38 2001 From: gary792 at iname.com (fay, gary) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] Link References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010322181805.05189040@pop.usit.net> Message-ID: <3ABAA82E.161CFAB2@iname.com> Edd, What was/is disappointing it that the whole herd will have to be destroyed. They had not been shorn, and will be packed in a trailer with lambs or still pregnant ewe's. How many will be trampled before they get to Idaho. If the farm had been isolated as was suggested then why not perform sampling, each year, harvest the parents, if they are disease free then so should be the lambs. They had been here for almost 5 years, this is more political than medical or biological. Gary Bissell wrote: > At 07:37 PM 3/21/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Did everyone see this, very disappointing ... > > > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010321/ts/madcow_sheep_dc_7.html > ============ > > I read but am I missing something???? Would you want some of these sheep > on your property??? Would you really want to eat lamb chops from > them??? After all they were recently imported - and from what I read about > the problems in GB I sure do not want that happening here. Some of these > neurological diseases are devastating to livestock and some also to > humans. I would not be happy if by next year something bad happened and > the USDA had done nothing. If the flock had not been recently imported I > would probably not be as apprehensive as I am toward this particular flock. > Just my opinion. > > === > > _______________________________________________ > Jacob-list mailing list > Jacob-list@jacobsheep.com > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list From simmonst at gcc.mass.edu Thu Mar 29 07:50:54 2001 From: simmonst at gcc.mass.edu (Thomas Simmons) Date: Wed Feb 2 07:52:43 2005 Subject: [Jacob-list] FMD, Edds Q Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010329075054.007a84e0@cms1.gcc.mass.edu> Edd, and all - This is a summary I put together for our College community, as the questions were coming fast and furious. Hopefully, this will help: "Some of you know that I raise Jacob Sheep, a rare breed, and serve as the VP of the national Jacob Sheep Conservancy. Many students and staff have asked me about the recent seizure of flocks in Vermont, the crisis in the UK, and what's happening here. This message is an effort to explain, as briefly as possible, those answers, as the media have succeeded in thoroughly confusing many people on these issues. The fact that a number of my students returned from a vacation break in Europe and were *never* asked about their activities, or disinfected, has me practically apoplectic. The seizure in Vermont IS NOT RELATED IN ANY WAY TO THE CULLS IN UK OR TO FOOT AND MOUTH. The flocks in VT were imported 6 years ago from Belgium. They are milk-producing "cheese" sheep. It is suspected that they may have eaten some food which was contaminated with "Mad Cow Disease" ("MCD"). Cattle contract MCD when they eat feed made of ground up Cattle parts, particularly brain and nerve tissue. It is deadly to both Cattle and Human, and linked to Creutzfeld-Jakob syndrome (sp?) in humans, and there is no cure. On the other hand, there is NO recorded case in the history of the world of a sheep contracting MCD. Many sheep carry a similar disease called "scrapie," which does *not* affect humans. Because of the similarity of scrapie and MCD (they are related conditions), the USDA admits that the test used to identify the disease is inconclusive in sheep. The flocks - under quarantine since importation - were seized while the farmer's appeal was still pending. They have been brought to the USDA lab in Ames, Iowa and destroyed, where autopsies will be performed on their brains. (editorial note: I personally was outraged; at the very least, if there was a suspicion that the original imports ate MCD-infected feed in Belgium, then the imports alone could have been seized and examined; their lambs could have remained in quarantine pending an analysis of the parents) Now - Foot-and-Mouth - (FMD) - This is a highly contagious disease that is spread on tires, clothes, dust particles, etc. It can live for months in the environment, and for 5 days inside a human lung. It does *not* affect humans, but severely affects all cloven-hoofed animals: deer, sheep, pigs, cattle. They develop rotting ulcers in the mouth, on the teats, and on the hooves, rendering them economically unproductive and crippled for life. The disease is common in Asia and South America, where it is regularly controlled with vaccinations. Europe and North America have been disease-free; the disease is now confirmed in UK, Netherlands, France, Ireland, and the West Bank. The UK's position has been to eradicate the disease through slaughtering all healthy animals within 3 kilometers of a confirmed case. For 300 cases, this amounts to slaughtering half a million animals (editorial note again: thus eliminating any animals from the gene pool who might be naturally more resistant.) I believe it is only a matter of time before FMD reaches the US. I have checked with about a dozen folks in the last two weeks who have travelled to Europe (via Boston, NY, and Dallas), and *none* of them were asked about their travel habits or disinfected upon arrival. The USDA "battle plan" is far more extensive than the UK. According to the USDA vets in DC yesterday, the plan is to slaughter all healthy animals within 5 to 10 miles of a confirmed case; the USDA office in Colorado this morning revised that figure to 20 miles. The sad part is, the US has had the vacination sitting at the Plum Island Research Lab for 25 years. Like the UK, however, US policy is to eradicate the disease by culling rather than controlling it through vaccination. Sadly again, there are NO exemptions from a cull for healthy, rare breeds (my own flock), so gene pools of rare animals all over could be annihilated if FMD reaches these shores. A number of rare breed owners are lobbying for an exception, but this would run counter to the USDA's goal of slaughtering everything in the target cull area. For now, I have cancelled showing my sheep at all shows, and cancelled visits to my farm by school groups. Soon the meter reader and the UPS truck may have to be halted too. It's not a pretty situation. So - there are the answers to the Qs many of you have asked me, no doubt with my own personal spin thrown in :-) thom simmons"