[Jacob-list] Re: Castration

[gf]

Members,

I am not sure about Rams but all of the p-psychologist literature I read in
college stated removing Testes from male mice did not mitigate aggressive
behavior. Is seems that once the aggressive patterns are wired into the
brain the removal was not suffient to reduce aggressive behavior...

Gary
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tara Higgins" <ranchrat at telusplanet.net>
To: "Jacob Sheep List" <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: [Jacob-list] The Bachelor Party - Solo, Duo or Trio?


> Heel low:
>
> Some questions about Jacob ram behaviour and keeping.  I am all newbie
> at this, having never kept a ram before.  I would appreciate some advice
> on methods of keeping Jacob rams in a peaceful state.  What others have
> found that worked or potential problems and/or triggers to avoid.  I am
> not naive enough to think rams cannot live up to their name's sake, but
> keeping head butting, aggression, and destruction down to a dull roar
> would be good.
>
> My ram lamb Nicto fast approaches 3 months of age.  I have heard that at
> this tender age, Jacobs are capable of breeding.  The weather is still
> hot at about 90 degrees F, so my ewes and ewe lambs should not begin
> cycling until the weather cools a bit BUT I need to begin gearing up to
> separate Nicto from the all ewe flock, especially his dam and two
> sisters as I am not an advocate of "inbreeding."
>
> I have heard from those who keep a single ram year round with the flock
> (obviously he is compatible to breeding all the ewes in his flock and
> has an aimable personality with the lambs) and from those who run a
> separate ram flock with the males only in with the ewes during breeding
> time.  I could keep Nicto away from the ewe flock in solitary company of
> my yearling male llama, but I figure this is cruel and unusual
> punishment to keep sheep from the company of sheep...yeh, newbie
> alright!  :-)
>
> My property is not large (4.5 acres) but is a long three sided
> "stretched" piece.  I am contemplating putting the ram(s) in one barn
> that is out of sight (but not likely sound or smell...our human
> abilities have been so desensitived in comparison!) of the main barn
> which will contain the ewes...some ewes will be left open this year as I
> wait for my sheep to be yearlings before they are bred.  The ram barn
> (the signage says "saloon") is surrounded by 8 ten foot six bar pipe
> panels that have OSB 4x8 windbreak sheets or wire mesh hog panels (dog,
> lamb, predator proof) on them.   This corral is then surrounded by a
> fenced pasture and if they broke out, they would have to get out of that
> pasture and then into another and then the corraled area around the
> ewe's barn, so we have containment within containment.  I hear Jacob
> rams are capable of floating over six+ foot fences, tunneling under and
> even thru barriers to get to their objectives...dem woolly girlies.
> Worse than spring break at the beaches!  ;-)
>
> I hear there is an "adjustment" period most every time the rams are
> re-introduced to each other...kinda a time of head bashing jostling to
> figure out who is head honcho and then they settle into baching together
> again.  I have heard pros and cons for putting rams together in a little
> pen where they cannot get a good run going to hit each other hard...one
> situation where two rams in a barn got beat up bad without the obvious
> distance required for backing up...the alternative to a small pen is a
> big open pasture where they can "run away" from aggression if they are
> on the losing end.
>
> Would it make better sense to have two rams or three...or just one?  I
> am contemplating having a trio of rams (bring in two more ram lambs).  I
> am thinking two would be buddies but if I brought in a third, the two
> would gang up on the new one as an outsider and he'd never be accepted.
> I need some Jacob ram psychology observations.  Pending personalities
> and physical attributes, three rams would seem to make the most sense
> thinking that one ram would always have two around him and he'd be more
> likely to be chummy in a group OR he could have that many more targets
> to aim for...golly this is FUN?!  Three does allow for ample genetic
> mixes with my ewe flock in the future though.
>
> I have heard that evenly aged/weighted two horn rams will win at combat
> more than four horns will; bigger horn circumferance and just a more
> stable solid battering area, is this what Jacobers are observing?
>
> Do toys like hard plastic balls amuse rams or incite more aggressive
> behaviours?  I know enough not to "pet" rams on the top of their heads
> (encourages butting) but to scratch chins instead and not to put up with
> any aggressive behaviour such as pushing or invading my space
> uninvited.  Dogs (predators) seem to find play a way to release energy
> and become more aimable--it is alright to cuddle the wolf, but not
> necessarily good to become overly comfortable with the ram.  Sheep are
> prey and have different behaviours, triggers, and mannerisms.  Any tips
> on how to be friendly with the Jacob boys but not to incite dominance
> triggers.  What ages are you seeing the rams "turn" on the bad
> behaviours?  Two years?
>
> I do have a ram shield from Premier (nfi) that is designed to fit a
> horned ram and does not allow them to see forward.  They are able to see
> on the side so can graze, drink and even breed.  I have not used the
> shield yet, but would appreciate hearing if others have and how it
> worked out before I buy more.  One suggestion is to shield ALL rams and
> not just one as this puts the shielded one at a major disadvantage and
> open to attacks by the ones able to fully see.
>
> I am willing to alter any rams who do not work out (overly
> aggressive/destructive) and need to know if anyone has seen marked
> improvement personality wise post-altering--I do not need to "ship" if
> castration softens temperaments--is a "ram" always a battering ram once
> they go this way?  My situation is unusual in the fact that my main
> reason for keeping Jacobs is for herding work with my ACDogs
> ...individuals may easily lead "non-breeding" existances and still
> remain very useful members of my flock...in fact altered males could be
> bonafided bonuses since they may be "worked" all year round without time
> out for breeding, lambing, etc. and would still provide bonuses like
> herding area mowing, gorgeous ram presence without the punch of
> unpredictable testosterone, and a fleece return each year...boys sans
> certain parts make for many pleasant plusses??
>
> Appreciate comments, input, experiences and observations on Jacob ram
> keeping techniques!
>
> Rammy doggone it,
>
> Tara
> --
>      ____(\                Tara Lee Higgins                  /)____
>     (_____~>        Rat Ranch - An ACD is for LIFE          <~_____)
>    ( ``  ``          ranchrat at telusplanet.net                ``  `` )
>     \                      Alberta Canada                         /
>      )  http://www.telusplanet.net/public/ranchrat/index.html     (
>
>
>
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