[Jacob-list] RE: Link on ALBC's Web Page for Jacob Sheep

[Neal and Louise Grose]

I have noticed that the JSS Breed Standard is for all white legs. I am 
puzzled why they did this. In fact, we cull for absence of color on the 
legs. I guess a lot has to do with everyone's first look. The first Jacob we 
saw is the one that looks right to us.

We are fortunate here that most of us are comfortable pushing for animals at 
shows that meet the individual breed standards within the classes. Jacob 
Sheep are generally shown in wool classes here, and judges are either aware 
of the breed standard differences between the breeds, or more importantly, 
the people showing the sheep are often not that hung up on topping a class 
(Or at least I hope that is the case). Our Breed association has been 
working on a judges packet to distribute to judges and other interested 
individuals that highlights the perimeters for "correct" type.

You are right that the sheep should be "black with white spots". This 
confuses many people, so I usually talk about the black or lilac "markings" 
on our sheep, and hope that is not too fine a distinction..

"Surely it is more likely that the Jacobs and Navajo Churro which both 
appear to have originated in Iberia or Africa, got their 4 horns from the 
same source."
This is probably true. One of my rules for life is that the world is more 
complicated than we would like for it to be. According to Dr. Phil 
Sponenberg (a geneticist that works with ALBC quite a bit, and something of 
an expert on the genetics of color), Churros probably got some of their 
traits, including multiple horns, from those darned Viking sheep that 
injected their genes into Northern Britain as well.

Ingrid Painter's excellent book "Jacob Sheep in America" includes an 
interesting section of correspondence from Britain and so forth. I remember 
one article that referred to the mixture of types that went in to the Jacob 
Breed. The American Standard on tails is for a medium length tail (neither 
the short tail of the northern or the long tail of the down breeds). The 
fleece is intermediate between the down types and the double fleeced 
primitive types. The horns are a mix of horns that are round in 
cross-section (northern) and triangular (southern). I have seen English wood 
cuts from the early 1700s that appear to show piebald sheep with 
extravagantly curved polycerate horns. I have a couple of books that I 
purchased from the Rare Breeds Survival Trust that group Jacob Sheep with 
the Viking breeds, though I find that many "authorities" simply quote each 
other.

All of this is to say that if I had to make a guess (and it is only a 
guess), I would say that piebald and/or polycerate flocks have been around 
in the British Isles for some time, and were supplemented by introductions 
of similar rams from Iberia and North Africa. (Another reference to Jacob 
sheep coming from South Africa would place them taken there by European 
colonists, since the African breeds would have been hair sheep.) These 
flocks could then have been reselected for type. This would make the Jacob 
Breed both a crossbreed and one of the oldest pure breeds, which makes it 
very much like most other breeds in this respect.

Neal Grose
North Carolina

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "gordon johnston" <gordon at westergladstone.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: [Jacob-list] RE: Link on ALBC's Web Page for Jacob Sheep


> Hi All
> That 2 horned ram is quite bull-like isn't he ?  I don't think the scrotum
> would pass here either, nor would the colour on the legs, which must be
> plain white in Britain.  As for his size, believe me, there are even
> chunkier chaps seen at shows, legs well out at the corners, like a good
> solid table !  But the desire to make the Jacob a commercial sheep is 
> doomed
> to failure because the big producer cannot cope with the horns.  Would you
> believe that it has been suggested, by a judge(!), that Jacob horns should
> be bred out, to make the breed more acceptable commercially !  Next he 
> will
> want us to shorten the neck, make the ears bigger, concentrate the colour 
> on
> the face and legs - and hey presto, you've got a Suffolk !
>
> When the question of whether or not Dorset blood was introduced into the
> breed at some point in the past is raised, there is usually a rapid change
> of subject, but it is generally acknowledged that it did take place.  In
> order for the Jacob to still look Jacob-like (ie to maintain the 
> phenotype)
> , that introduced blood has had to be well diluted, to at least 1/16th or
> 1/32nd, while trying to maintain the desired introduced attribute of
> increased size.  One persistant trait from the Dorset is the pink nose (
> which is unnacceptable of course).  The addition of Dorset blood would 
> seem
> to have happened on a small scale but the pink noses do turn up throughout
> the British flock. The increased size has probably resulted more from
> selective breeding where bigger is better.  There is a small number of
> breeders who do the rounds of all the shows (remembering that Britain is
> very small so one person can take their sheep all around the country) and
> those same few provide the pool of judges. They all think the bigger the
> Jacob the better so they have influenced the size of the breed
> disproportionately, over the last 35 years. And they seem to be growing
> still.  The Hebridean Sheep Society has taken note and larger sheep are
> discouraged, but we note with alarm the growing tendency to show Soay 
> sheep
> here, which could so easily start the bigger is better trend in that breed
> too.  We do feel that showing is the culprit - yes, it provides a showcase
> for the breed, and we all want our breeds to be seen and kept by others ,
> but the bigger the sheep, the more of an impression it makes on the judge,
> so  everyone buys their breeding stock from the winner and the following
> year everyone else brings their biggest sheep to the show.......
> Not everyone wants to follow this trend, and there is a large number of
> exJSS members over here, like us, who have either given up keeping the 
> breed
> because of the direction their development is taking them, or who continue
> to keep Jacobs of the old type - their difficulty is that they cannot sell
> breeding stock - when the old primitive (and scorned) type of Jacob turns 
> up
> at official sales  they are sold off in batches at the end of the sale 
> along
> with the crossbreds, and make very poor prices. So the pressure to conform
> is a financial one.
>
> A couple of other points from that link :- para 2) 'the fleece is properly
> described as white with black spots'.  Surely that should read 'black with
> white spots' ?
> Para 4) origins : the claim is made that the 4 horns come from British 4
> horned breeds.  Where is the evidence for that? Was there ever any contact
> before the 1870s when Hebrideans went down to the English parklands? 
> Surely
> it is more likely that the Jacobs and Navajo Churro which both appear to
> have originated in Iberia or Africa, got their 4 horns from the same 
> source.
> Jacobs and British primitives such as the Hebridean are fundamentally
> different in that the sheep which came to Britain via the northern route 
> are
> Northern Shorttails, whereas Jacobs , which came via the southern route, 
> are
> longtailed.
> Juliet (for Gordon who is sensibly sleeping) in Scotland
>
>
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