[Jacob-list] Horns and Scrapie

[Shannon Phifer]

Hi All - Thank you Betty for setting the record straight in regards to Scrapie.  I am amazed at how many people aren't on the mandatory program.  Here is a link with information on how to sign up and where to order tags - http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_diseases/scrapie/approved-tag-co.shtml

In regards to horns - I personally love a beautiful, wide 2-horn :) and I find close horns on a 2-horn very objectionable.  I agree with Linda, I love wide laterals.  I prefer symetrical horns with space between.  I would never use a ram with lobster claws.  I don't have a problem with broken horns.  The JSBA standard states the following are disqualifying traits:

HORNS: 
-  Polled sheep, or sheep with scurs only. 
-  Two-horned rams having small, weak, feminine looking horns. 
-  Multiple-horned rams having fewer than four strong horns, with scurs in upper or lower horn position. (it is fully acceptable for rams with at least 4 or more strong balanced horns to have additional scurs or horn buds) 
-  Two-horned ewes having small or weak horns. 
-  Multiple horned ewes having scurs in the primary/top horn position 
-  Solid white horns 
-  Forward pointing horns curling towards the eyes, or growing over the nose impairing the ability to graze naturally 
-  Narrow or close horns on two horned rams that lack space between the growing horns and his neck or jaw, encumbering his well being 
-  Undifferentiated and unbalanced set to four horned ram, i.e., fused in an irregular pattern on one or both sides 
-  Small, feminine horns on rams 
-  Lower (lateral) horns that grow into the face, cheek or neck 

For those of you that haven't seen it yet, there is a wonderful Judge's Packet on the JSBA website.  This is great for judges, but it is also very informational for a new Jacob owner.  http://www.jsba.org/JudgesPacket2.pdf

Take care!
 
Shannon Phifer
Kenleigh Acres Farm 
www.kenleigh-acres.com 
That'll Do Photography 
www.thatlldo.photoreflect.com 


----- Original Message ----
From: "jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com" <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com>
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:27:38 AM
Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 16


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Sold Jacobs returning! (Linda)
   2. Re: Correct horns (Linda)
   3. Re: scrape program (Betty Berlenbach)
   4. Re: scrape program (Betty Berlenbach)


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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:26:28 -0400
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Sold Jacobs returning!
To: Meg Steensland <beegal7 at yahoo.com>, Jacob List
    <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <2007915192628.902152 at patchwor-efob1t>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I give it an automatic "maybe". Depends on the circumstances at the farm.  What other sheep were there besides mine? Did the owner practice whole flock wormings to the point that I might be bringing in a resistant parasite? What health problems, if any, did the buyer have? Are these sheep I'd want to have back?  Most likely yes as I don't sell sheep I wouldn't buy.  But I often sell sheep because I'm overloaded on a particular bloodline.  

What I will do is to work to find breeder homes for sheep I've sold.

Linda

www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


> Last March I sold a group of 8 sheep to a woman that wanted to use

> them to show off her trained dogs.  She called tonight and reported

> she is getting a divorce, selling the farm and moving back to WY -

> can I take the sheep back?

>

> Of course!  She did place two, so it is just 6 coming back and I

> still have many 2007 and older ewes to place!  One of the ewes

> coming back is really special as she was Res. Breed CH as a lamb in

> 2005, she did a parade and a benefit and is one high-stepping proud-

> walking ewe.She is returning with her 2007 ewe lamb sired by a

> lilac ram  Another Jacob is a quieter, friendly one also with her

> ewe lamb by the lilac guy (lamb was born after dam left here).  So,

> I suddenly have 6 more ewes than I had planned for and would be

> happy to place a few of these or other 2005-2007 ewes (or older

> ones if you truly want same).  I am in OH.  I will be taking two

> sheep to exhibit at the Yellow Springs A Wool Gathering as we

> usually do, tomorrow.

>

> If you are near Ithaca NY - Marie (on this list) may have room to

> bring back a ewe or two for you - she will be here last weekend in

> Sept to fetch a ram and a ewe for her flock.

>

> General question - when someone wants to bring back a Jacob -

> automatic yes?  Depends on how long or circumstances?   Does this

> happen to you?

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:02:01 -0400
From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Correct horns
To: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>, <Gotothewhip at aol.com>,
    <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <20079152021.146041 at patchwor-efob1t>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Am I the only one that replied?  I'm very interested in hearing thoughts from other breeders.

www.patchworkfibers.com
Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn


> I love laterals that sweep WAY out! I don't consider them

> objectionable at all.  In fact I consider wide swept laterals to be

> very desirable.

>

> Prefer to have some separation at the base in a 6 month old ram

> lamb, but would consider the ram if he were superior in other areas.

>

> Some 2 horned rams with very large horns really are two horned.  I

> seldom use a two horned, but when I do, I want to see a very wide

> sweep.  I do not want to see two horns that are close to the cheek

> in either a ram or a ewe.  

>

> You aren't going to be able to avoid ever having horns broken.  Not

> a fault, imo.  

>

> Linda

>

>

> www.patchworkfibers.com

> Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>

>

>> As a newbie.. I am really curious on a few horn questions.. Ive

>> read thru the JSBA standard, but am still left with questions.

>>

>> HOW objectionable to you as a breeder are horns as follows?

>>

>> Lack of separation at the bases?

>>

>> Fused horns?

>> What about a true fused horn, where to an untrained eye, it is a

>> 2 horn ram... But others say because of the extreme mass of the 2

>> horn , they are actually 4 horn fused?

>>

>> "Lobster Claws"?

>>

>> Broken horns?

>>

>> On lower drop horns.. Ones, that do not curl, and just go out?

>>

>> What about drop horns that grow into the face?

>>

>> Too tight curls on a 2 horn?

>>

>> Of these above mentioned horn "problems" which ones are NOT

>> eligible for registry?

>>

>>

>> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:10:27 -0400
From: "Betty Berlenbach" <lambfarm at sover.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] scrape program
To: <Schmick54 at aol.com>, <paigebowser at gmail.com>,
    <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c7f853$f8977d00$88a772d8 at USER5AFE0954BF>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

AND BY THE WAY., AS MICKI PONTS OUTM THE WORD IS SCRAPIE, NOT SCRAPE NOR SCRAPIES!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Schmick54 at aol.com 
  To: paigebowser at gmail.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] scrape program


  It is a farm that regularly tests for scrapie.  All sheep these days are required to have a tag identifying them in case the sheep develops the disease.You can find out about Scrapie by going to: www.animalagriculture.org/scrapie.  It will tell you all you need to know and tell you where to get your tags and how to become a scrapie program farm. You don't have to ! You just need the tags. Scrapie is rather rare in Jacob Sheep. At least, no cases have been reported.

  Mick





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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 07:09:29 -0400
From: "Betty Berlenbach" <lambfarm at sover.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] scrape program
To: <Schmick54 at aol.com>, <paigebowser at gmail.com>,
    <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID: <00af01c7f853$f725eba0$88a772d8 at USER5AFE0954BF>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

wrong!  you do have to.  there's been a MANDAYORY scrapie program for several years now!  you dob\n't have to sign up for the voluntary program, which is more comprehensive and requires a closed fkock, but MANDATORY means MANDATORY!  SORRY ABOUT TYPINGM USING OINE FINGER, BROKEN WRIST,AMONG OTHER THINGS.  GOOGLE APHIS TO FIND OUT WHAT YPU HAVE TO DO FOR MANDATORY PROGRAM.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Schmick54 at aol.com 
  To: paigebowser at gmail.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] scrape program


  It is a farm that regularly tests for scrapie.  All sheep these days are required to have a tag identifying them in case the sheep develops the disease.You can find out about Scrapie by going to: www.animalagriculture.org/scrapie.  It will tell you all you need to know and tell you where to get your tags and how to become a scrapie program farm. You don't have to ! You just need the tags. Scrapie is rather rare in Jacob Sheep. At least, no cases have been reported.

  Mick





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