[Jacob-list] showing jacobs

[Hirschi Monika]

Breeding  for show is never doing best for the breed. To many genes going 
lost. To often the animals getting to fat, to big
to what ever but very less they stay for what we loved them. Look at the dog 
shows! Many breeds (they look nice) but they are not
good for what they were breed before. They get to hairy, to heavy, to deap, 
to large and to big. They looks sure good but they are
a shame for the breed. Sometimes these Champions should go into the work. We 
would see that many of them are completly unable
to do their work. Animals should not be just for showing in ring, they have 
a heart in their body, legs to walk and are not just for stand in
a ring. I also do showing with my dogs, but I am happier to get a bader 
place than to have a to heavy dog. I visited many of your hp and
I really like your Jacobs while they are not so heavy than some UK's I saw 
on showpictures. Sure they looks good, but they looks not
like Jacobs (expect the horns and colors)
I hope in some barns of the UK they still breed the Jacobs like you do.
Show's are good to show the breed to people, but show them what they are. I 
am very new to the Jacobs and I started because I did not
want a heavy breed, because I love the different look of them, because they 
have good lambs and less problems. I hope you all out there
will keep this way to breed Jacobs. You are doing a great job for this 
breed.

Monika
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com>
To: <jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:11 PM
Subject: Jacob-list Digest, Vol 44, Issue 6



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> Today's Topics:

>

>   1. Showing Jacobs (Shannon Phifer)

>   2. Re: Showing Jacobs (Linda)

>   3. Fw:  Split Eyelids, More questions (R. Unzicker)

>   4. Re: Fw:  Split Eyelids, More questions (Linda)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:43:55 -0700 (PDT)

> From: Shannon Phifer <kenleighacres at yahoo.com>

> Subject: [Jacob-list] Showing Jacobs

> To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

> Message-ID: <947667.20780.qm at web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>

> Hi Everyone -

>

> Linda wrote "I bought Sasquatch because seeing Piper got me interested in 

> looking at more of the Southwind flock. So, maybe that's a good reason to 

> show?"

>

> This is why we have chosen to show our sheep - advertising.  We do not 

> make breeding choices by how our sheep do in the show ring.  We go to the 

> show with a clear idea of what we like and don't like about the sheep we 

> are showing and we come home with the same likes and dislikes.  Some of 

> the critiques given by judges at the County Fairs have been laughable :) 

> We enjoy talking to people about the Jacob breed.

>

> Shannon Phifer

> Kenleigh Acres Farm

> www.kenleigh-acres.com

> That'll Do Photography

> www.thatlldo.photoreflect.com

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 07:17:50 -0400

> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>

> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Showing Jacobs

> To: Shannon Phifer <kenleighacres at yahoo.com>,

> <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> Message-ID: <20084871750.866433 at patchwor-efob1t>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> That sounds like an excellent showing/breeding strategy.  I love seeing 

> Jacobs the few times I get to MSWF and I frequently see (and sometimes 

> buy) sheep there that I really love. Often these are not sheep the judges 

> love. The judge is picking the picture perfect sheep according to the 

> standard (we hope) and I'm looking for the perfect sheep for breeding. Not 

> the same thing at all and I require alot more information than the judge 

> does. But it is going to the show that allows me (and others) to see the 

> sheep and that's important in promoting the breed.  Would I buy a GC ram? 

> Sure, if I liked him and his background.  Would I give him extra points 

> for winning? Maybe if everything else was equal.  Showing is a great way 

> to get our sheep out in the public eye, as long as we don't lose sight of 

> what the breed is all about.

>

> Linda

>

> www.patchworkfibers.com

> Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>

>

>

>

>> Hi Everyone -

>>

>> Linda wrote "I bought Sasquatch because seeing Piper got me

>> interested in looking at more of the Southwind flock. So, maybe

>> that's a good reason to show?"

>>

>> This is why we have chosen to show our sheep - advertising.  We do

>> not make breeding choices by how our sheep do in the show ring.  We

>> go to the show with a clear idea of what we like and don't like

>> about the sheep we are showing and we come home with the same likes

>> and dislikes.  Some of the critiques given by judges at the County

>> Fairs have been laughable :)  We enjoy talking to people about the

>> Jacob breed.

>>

>> Shannon Phifer

>> Kenleigh Acres Farm

>> www.kenleigh-acres.com

>> That'll Do Photography

>> www.thatlldo.photoreflect.com

>> _______________________________________________

>> Jacob-list mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &

>> Fiberworks Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

>> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

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> Message: 3

> Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:38:31 -0400

> From: "R. Unzicker" <runzicker at verizon.net>

> Subject: [Jacob-list] Fw:  Split Eyelids, More questions

> To: <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> Message-ID: <00fe01c89975$74884490$0201a8c0 at homepc>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

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>

>

>

>

> I have had several rams that were champions in the show ring.  Some I 

> bought from other breeders as ram lambs.  None of these came from parents 

> who were shown.  I also raised some that did very well in the show ring. 

> However, I do not  purchase a sheep because I think they will do well in 

> the show ring.  I buy or keep rams I have raised that give me diversity of 

> blood lines, that I think will complement my ewes, and ones that I 

> personally like because of their horns set, markings, temperament etc.  I 

> have been known to sacrifice one of these traits  if I really liked 

> everything else about a particular ram.

>

> Who I happen to own at the time of the show usually determines who I show. 

> I show  to promote and advertise the breed, not to win in the ring. I 

> usually sell any ram lambs I raise if I have a buyer so who is left here 

> is who may get shown.  This means that occasionally I come in near the 

> bottom but I think it is more important to support the various shows so I 

> show what I have.  If I buy a ram lamb, I do not usually sell them. 

> Although I did sell one I had bought only months before because a teenage 

> breeder needed a ram and everything I had left was related to his flock. 

> That ram lamb was named a champion ram,  beating out my own yearling. 

> Not sure who was happier,  the young man who showed Meridian Emmett or 

> myself at seeing the pride this young man took in his Jacobs!

>

> I have shown a ram with a split eye lid. Not proud of that but that is 

> what I had at the time.  I didn't expect him to be champion but so many 

> judges do not know Jacobs and probably never heard of a split eye lid.   I 

> really do not like splits but I liked everything else about the ramand he 

> passed inspection  so I decided to use him.  None of his offspring had 

> split eye lids.  I think I was just lucky though.  I also showed a two 

> horned ram that I really liked.  I had never kept a two horned ram before. 

> That is how much I liked him.  He was champion several  times.  Great ram 

> in all respects except one.  When we did a sperm count on him,  he had 

> twelve sperm, all dead.   Interesting side note is that his twin was 

> champion ewe more than once also.   She was bred to lamb as a two year 

> old.  She was the only ewe that did not conceive this year.  So much for 

> bring a champion!  My point to all this is, buy the ram that you think is 

> best for your flock.  Do not buy just because a

> particular animal won in the show ring.

> Royal

>  ----- Original Message ----- 

>  From: Linda

>  To: Gotothewhip at aol.com ; jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

>  Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 8:11 PM

>  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Split Eyelids, More questions

>

>

>  Lots of Jacob breeders show. That's not a 'gasp'. It's breeding ONLY for 

> show that bothers me.  I have a great deal of respect for many of the 

> breeders that consistently win. None of them breed "for the show ring".

>

>  If we culled every Jacob with a notch, as I heard they did in the UK at 

> one time, we'd have a breed with only two horned sheep. You cannot get rid 

> of SUED without getting rid of plicate animals.

>

>  What's the market for a Grand Champion ram? Just curious as I haven't 

> seen many going on to be flock sires in serious flocks.

>

>  Does anyone want to comment? It's an interesting topic - does performance 

> in the show ring factor into your decision when buying sheep?

>

>  Linda

>  who is working to get a Jacob class at SAFF this year - but won't feel 

> bad if I lose and won't feel proud if I win

>

>

>  www.patchworkfibers.com

>  Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>

>

>  > OK.. I have 2 of them... Both sired by the ram I culled last

>  > year... Thankfully they are the only ones by that ram.  There are

>  > no sheep in the flock with split eyelids other than these 2 lambs.

>  > He did not have SUED.

>  >

>  > How common are SUED's?  Im guessing that they are a reason to not

>  > SHOW a particular animal... But what about a ewe lamb?  Is it a

>  > reason to cull her as well?

>  >

>  > There was talk on previous posts  about research done in years

>  > past, but I must have missed the ink to the information.  As you

>  > all know, Im new to the Jacobs, and enjoy having them , but also

>  > enjoy the (GASP) Showring!  SO , the genetics that play into this

>  > are VERY important to me.. Especially if this is a issue in the

>  > showring and with breeding animals.

>  >

>  > My big goal is to produce rams that have one well in the ring, and

>  > are sold to breeders as producers who have a bit of a record.... I

>  > know, I'm a bit over involved.

>  >

>  >

>  > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

>

>

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> Message: 4

> Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:07:27 -0400

> From: Linda <patchworkfibers at alltel.net>

> Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] Fw:  Split Eyelids, More questions

> To: "R. Unzicker" <runzicker at verizon.net>, <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>

> Message-ID: <2008489727.028977 at patchwor-efob1t>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> I guess that really emphasizes the importance of hardiness (something the 

> judge can't see).  First) the lamb has to live and second) it has to 

> reproduce or none of the other traits really matter.

>

> Linda

>

> www.patchworkfibers.com

> Registered Jacob Sheep, Angora Rabbits, Handspun Yarn

>

> I also showed a two horned ram that I really liked.

>> I had never kept a two horned ram before.  That is how much I liked

>> him.  He was champion several  times.  Great ram in all respects

>> except one.  When we did a sperm count on him,  he had twelve

>> sperm, all dead.   Interesting side note is that his twin was

>> champion ewe more than once also.   She was bred to lamb as a two

>> year old.  She was the only ewe that did not conceive this year.

>> So much for bring a champion!  My point to all this is, buy the ram

>> that you think is best for your flock.  Do not buy just because a

>> particular animal won in the show ring.

>> Royal

>

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