[Jacob-list] White lambs

[Jacobflock at aol.com]

Dear Listers = I plugged in several responses that address the "white"  
issue.  There is a white "excessive" piebald pattern that leaves a  remainder 
black collar and minimal facial markings ... no leg markings, usually  white 
hooves and often with streaked horns.  There is also a mutation that  will 
produce a solid white "piebald" ... that is the giant spot to  which Gordon 
referred.  A good example is the Dorset which is allowed  to have a single 
black spot the size of a  pencil eraser head.  There  seems to be some 
correlation between piebald pattern and blue eyes ...  
 
Acceptable "breed standard" markings and the genetic basis  for breed 
specific markings and random markings show up in the  progeny.  What if you were 
to repeat the breeding to see if it is now  a phenotype or a random 
mutation.  I suspect you would see spots on the  lamb.
 
Regards - 
Fred Horak
St. Jude's Farm
Lucas, TX 75002

>From Gordon  = As a Jacob is genetically a black sheep with white  spots, 

would a totally
white one not simply be expressing an all-encompassing  white spot?  Or is
that too  simplistic?

www.scothebs.co.uk

Heather - I had a ram lamb once who  was all white.  He had a normal  
colored sister and his mother  rejected him but not his sister.  He got pretty 
good at stealing milk so I  never bottle fed him, but held his mother for him 
to nurse to get him started  for the first week.  He looked like a regular 2 
horned Jacob ram, who we  later wethered, other than his lack of color.  

I figured excessive  spotting for the explanation.

There are several  all white breeds of  sheep where the white is due to 
excessive spotting rather than the White  pattern.  In Icelandics they have 
both kinds of white and you can often  tell which are excessive spotting 
because the white is "whiter" while the White  pattern sheep can often have tan 
pheomelanin points on legs and face that can  extend into main body wool . 

Heather Hettick
Moonstruck  Farm
Creston, OH
www.moonstruckfarm.wor




In a message dated 3/29/2012 1:54:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
gbanderson at ucdavis.edu writes:

The  genetic explanation I have heard for white Jacobs is in line with
Juliet's  explanation: The lamb expresses one large spot.  Presumably the
white  Jacob would produce spotted lambs.

-----Original Message-----
From:  jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com]  On Behalf Of
jacob-list-request at jacobsheep.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29,  2012 12:15 PM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: Jacob-list Digest,  Vol 95, Issue 14

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Today's Topics:

1. 4-Horn  Ram For Sale - Elmira OR (Bill & Jeannette Joosse)
2.  WHITE LAMBS (tim koenig)
3. Re: WHITE LAMBS (Peg  Bostwick)
4. Re: WHITE LAMBS (Linda)
5. Re:  WHITE LAMBS (Dan Carpenter)
6. Re: WHITE LAMBS (Richard and  Susan)
7. Re: WHITE LAMBS (G & J  Johnston)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 12:14:23 -0700
From: "Bill & Jeannette  Joosse" <wjjoosse at gmail.com>
Subject: [Jacob-list] 4-Horn Ram For  Sale - Elmira OR
To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID:
<CAGbb8n5_2nkOU72gsi+_JoanSdSgQ7MSjca3MJ6DPid74wmMwQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Due to limited facilities, I am selling a 1  yr old JSBA registered ram for
$150 (or OBO).
He is 4-Horn and 45%  Black. DOB 02/14/11.
Registration No. D006-12  Joosse's  Vincent.
His sire is Kenleigh's Frankie and dam is Rollings Hills  Elsie.
He sired 6 lambs this year.
If interested, please let me know and  I will email photos.
I may be reached at 541.935.6303  or email   wjjoosse at gmail.com
Elmira OR is approximately 15 miles west of  Eugene.

Jeannette Joosse
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Message:  2
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:32:20 -0700
From: tim koenig  <timkoenig5 at gmail.com>
Subject: [Jacob-list] WHITE LAMBS
To:  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID:
<CAHMqVfkmipSOWU56-+gWUDCcjf1K1SfpWV6kXcDDv-dEN-zogQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Lambing just started for me, and with a  surprise, a Totally white ewe.
No non-Jacobs on the farm since I started  with Jacobs, or with
neighbors. Has anyone else had this happen  before?


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date:  Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:00:43 -0400
From: "Peg Bostwick"  <peg at sweetgrass-jacobs.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] WHITE  LAMBS
To: "'tim koenig'" <timkoenig5 at gmail.com>,     <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <008201cd0d36$9b0c92e0$d125b8a0$@sweetgrass-jacobs.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Not for a long time, but  during our first couple of years with the Jacobs,
we did have a set of  triplets with two of the three all white (with blue
eyes).   Pre-registry, so it was hard to track where it came from, but  
Ingrid
Painter does mention this happening in her book on Jacobs, and  provides a
couple of possible genetic explanations.   Ours wound  up in our mixed
(commercial) flock, and their lambs looked like any other  Jacob crosses -
mostly dark with badger markings.   

Peg

Peg  Bostwick
peg at sweetgrass-jacobs.com
517-626-6981


-----Original  Message-----
From:  jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com]  On Behalf Of tim koenig
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:32 PM
To:  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: [Jacob-list] WHITE LAMBS

Lambing  just started for me, and with a surprise, a Totally white ewe.
No  non-Jacobs on the farm since I started with Jacobs, or with neighbors.
Has  anyone else had this happen  before?
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list  mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



------------------------------

Message:  4
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:12:18 -0400
From: Linda  <patchworkfibers at windstream.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] WHITE  LAMBS
To: tim koenig <timkoenig5 at gmail.com>
Cc:  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Message-ID:  <4F739AD2.5060804 at windstream.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Over the years, people have  posted on this list about white lambs from 
Jacob parents. It seems it does  occur. If you search the archives, you 
can find reference to white  lambs.

Linda

On 3/28/2012 6:32 PM, tim koenig wrote:

>  Lambing just started for me, and with a surprise, a Totally white ewe.

>  No non-Jacobs on the farm since I started with Jacobs, or with

>  neighbors. Has anyone else had this happen before?

>  _______________________________________________

> Jacob-list mailing  list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm&  Fiberworks

>  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com

>  http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list

>

>


--  
Patchwork Farm Jacob Sheep  <http://www.patchworkfibers.com>
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Message:  5
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:30:31 -0400
From: "Dan Carpenter"  <Hobsickle at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] WHITE LAMBS
To:  "'tim koenig'" <timkoenig5 at gmail.com>,  <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <004b01cd0d3a$c5f674e0$51e35ea0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Since it's almost impossible to eliminate  recessive alleles from a
population (witness red in Holsteins), it's highly  likely that there are a
few Jacobs out there that carry the genes necessary  for white...and it
doesn't have to indicate crossbreeding.  I'd love  to take a look at the
pedigrees of the  parents!

-Dan

-----Original Message-----
From:  jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com]  On Behalf Of tim koenig
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:32 PM
To:  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: [Jacob-list] WHITE LAMBS

Lambing  just started for me, and with a surprise, a Totally white ewe.
No  non-Jacobs on the farm since I started with Jacobs, or with neighbors.
Has  anyone else had this happen  before?
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list  mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list



------------------------------

Message:  6
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:50:22 -0400
From: "Richard and Susan"  <stcroft at ptd.net>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] WHITE LAMBS
To: "'tim  koenig'" <timkoenig5 at gmail.com>,     <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <004301cd0d3d$8ad23310$a0769930$@ptd.net>
Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

I have never had a totally  white lamb -- however, this year I have had two
nearly all black  lambs......never had that before.  
We have a small flock.....only had  six ewes who were bred this
Spring.......so we have 12 lambs..........and  10 are rams.    
Sue



-----Original  Message-----
From:  jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com
[mailto:jacob-list-bounces at jacobsheep.com]  On Behalf Of tim koenig
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:32 PM
To:  Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
Subject: [Jacob-list] WHITE LAMBS

Lambing  just started for me, and with a surprise, a Totally white ewe.
No  non-Jacobs on the farm since I started with Jacobs, or with neighbors.
Has  anyone else had this happen  before?
_______________________________________________
Jacob-list  mailing list, sponsored by Swallow Lane Farm &  Fiberworks
Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/jacob-list




------------------------------

Message:  7
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:05:23 +0100
From: "G & J Johnston"  <westergladstone at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] WHITE  LAMBS
To: <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Message-ID:  <000501cd0d9b$d6c3caa0$844b5fe0$@btinternet.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

As a Jacob is genetically a  black sheep with white spots, would a totally
white one not simply be  expressing an all-encompassing white spot?  Or is
that too  simplistic?

www.scothebs.co.uk




------------------------------

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