[Retros] Many new examples of Yefim T. 09/03/2004

[TregerYefim at aol.com]

   Hello from Yefim. Not only discussion (between me and Ryan) but many new 
positions to think about.
   
2. Remember my idea about eternally winning position? If you admit that some 
heuristic logic is allowed to prevent futility, then you have to admit that 
such a position is won instantly (so easy to prove it, FEN below).
8/b1p5/1pP5/1P6/3p1p1p/2pP1P1k/2P1BP1p/7K w - - 0 1
Really? What if white just plays Bd1-e2 over and over? You see, there are 
still two possible outcomes to the game, so the arbiter must not interfere! If 
white's flag falls, the arbiter would properly rule that he does not lose the 
game, since there is obviously no possible checkmate for black; the game is 
drawn.

 No, there is only one outcome! If White plays Bd1-e2 eternally, then no 
final (unless
you have 50moves rule or 3rep.). It is better to see my new version of 
Eternally winning position.
8/b1p5/1pP2p1p/1P3P1P/6B1/4p3/4Pp1p/5K1k w - -
Here White is always capable to mate BK in his move.

   3. What about position necessarily leading to mate independently on play 
of sides?
K1k5/P1Pp4/1p1P4/8/p7/P2P4/8/8 w - - 0 1 
Again, two possibilities; white could yield a draw by running out of time. 
The arbiter can't rule when there are two possible outcomes. 
   My new example is simpler:
k7/P7/KP6/2r5/8/8/8/8 w - -
 Suppose, White' s flag is down in this moment. Arbiter should check a 
possibility
of mate for Black ... and we have a contradiction! Only one outcome here is 
possible,
but I suspect you think it will be awarded as Draw. 
4. Judgment decision denies a right of player to resign (denies a right of 
one player
to wait for other to resign:); denies a hope:((.  
In the example you gave (locked pawns on their own 4th ranks), there is no 
hope for either side to checkmate the other. Nothing is being taken away from 
the players except the right to gain a cheap victory by running the opponent's 
clock down in a position they could never win over-the-board. And somehow I 
can't see players protesting their loss of right to resign drawn positions :-P. 
  Below is dead position 
6k1/7P/5PK1/7Q/8/B7/8/8 b - -
 in which a) Black's lost on time; b) resigns! What is the result? What is 
superior:
loosing on time, resigning or dead draw rule? Let's see rules:
A1.3:
If the position is such that neither player can possibly checkmate, the game 
is drawn.    
A5.1.b: 
The game is won by the player whose opponent declares he resigns. This 
immediately ends the game. 
     Again, i.m.o. it is a contradiction: (the game is drawn and the game is 
won!)
    May be the word "immediately" can help?
5. You think that "dead position is rare occurrence". 
Not quite – I said that dead positions that are ‘deep’ (requiring some 
analysis to tell that they are dead) – are rare. Obvious dead positions such as K+B 
v. K happen quite often. Therefore, the examples below are moot, for they are 
obviously dead positions. Any seasoned player could tell at a glance that 
they are dead. The calculations are meaningless, because math isn't the best 
approach to evaluate these positions
 What about position WK+B  against 
BK+R 
(FEN: 8/8/3r4/4k3/4B3/4K3/8/8 w - -)
and Black lost on time. "Any seasoned player could tell at a glance that 
White cannot win?!" You know, I played Black with master who tried after my flag's 
down to construct a win position with his pieces almost 5 minutes. Of course, 
you do not believe it, because there are almost 6 million positions with 
these pieces (approx. 64*31*55*60). He used some heuristic logic :)
 6. Thank you for example of Buchanan
Bb1k1b2/bKp1p1p1/1pP1P1P1/1P6/p5P1/P7/8/8 w - -
  Plain language: this example is based on idea of passing move's turn. We 
all
know another example:
8/8/8/8/4n3/8/7p/5K1k b - -
Can Black win if WK moves only on f1- f2?  It is CDP (conditionally dead 
position). And if you admit then "sometimes judgment call is needed" for dead
position, why it is not needed for CDP?
Next time I will go to the tournament with a list of dead positions and 
math-logic
encyclopedia:))
Sincerely, Yefim 09/03/2004

 

    



































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