[Retros] Article 4.6 (are the King and the Rook....?)

[raosorio at fibertel.com.ar]

Hi Guus,

"Is this similat to what you have mind? "

What we in fact have in mind is the general Minimal Deviation from the Rules convention, but
 Kf1-g1 is one case and we have compossed exactly the problem you are talking about! 
As you proposse it's white in the middle of the move but strictly demonstrated by the retroanalysis.
Good bye surprisse!

Best,
Roberto


Hi Roberto, 

Some decades ago I made a playful composition based on the idea of "having moved Ke1 to g1" - without the thorough investigation of the touch-move rules you are conducting. I never published it and lost the diagram as well. The idea was that "Ke1-g1 was the only legal last white (half) move", thus proving that the diagram was in the middle of the process of castling. I do not recall how I did that precisely; the trick is of course disproving the last move Kf1-g1. Even more challenging might be to disprove that black is to move. That would really corner the diagnosis of "being in the middle of castling". Is this similat to what you have mind? 

Guus Rol. 


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- 
Van: retros-bounces at janko.at [mailto:retros-bounces at janko.at] Namens raosorio at fibertel.com.ar 
Verzonden: vrijdag 1 februari 2008 12:07 
Aan: retros at janko.at 
Onderwerp: [Retros] Article 4.6 (are the King and the Rook....?) 


Hi Jonathan, 

When I asked the question (Is white forced to move the king freely or he's forced to castle? ) I had in mind the same answer as you, but the common sense was torturing my mind indicating that the answer should be the opposite. 

I got another surprisse: look at this article, 

4.6 When, as a legal move or part of a legal move, a piece has been released on a square, it cannot then be moved to another square. The move is considered to have been made when all the relevant requirements of Article 3 have been fulfilled. 

4.6 b) ..... When the player has released the king from his hand, the move is not yet made, but the player no longer has the right to make any move other than castling on that side, if this is legal; 

So, for both cases, 
a) the player moved his King from e1 to g1 and stopped (pressed his clock), then this is an iilegal move that has to be retracted but just to complete the castling 

b) the player moved his King from e1 to g1 without finishing (he didn't press the clock), then the situation is legal, say that he made half a legal move, and he is forced to complete the castling. 

An equivalent situation would be produced by an e.p. capture if the player makes the diagonal movement with his pawn without capturing the other side's pawn. However, this is not explicitely explained as 4.6b) does for the castling case. In fact, the particular explanations are not necessary at all after the general 4.6 statement, but why for castling and not for e.p.? These Laws are plenty of inconsistencies. 

I understand article 4 not as a penalties one, but one trying to keep the game development as clean of disturbations as posible. Say, if a player makes an illegal move, the idea is to constrain his move to be a legal one as similar as posible to the illegal one. So, the constrains are not penalties but a way to "let's keep all what happened during the game as contained by article 3 as posible" 

Within this spirit, the idea of forcing the rook to move (when an illegal castling has been made and the king has no legal move) is reinforced (opposite to the 4.4 statement). 

best, 
Roberto 


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A J Mestel A.J.Mestel at damtp.cam.ac.uk Thu Jan 31 04:30:32 EST 2008 

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You could not make me castle rather than play Kf1 if I accidentally played 
1 Kg1. However, if I played 1 Rf1 and stopped (pressed my clock) I don't think I would be allowed to rectify my mistake saying I meant to castle. 

If I play Kg1 and press my clock that counts as an illegal move and I must make any K move, including 0-0-0 I suppose. 

So here's my contribution: 

W Ke1 Rh1 Qd4 Rg5 I play 1 Rf1 (intending to castle) but the game is over because it's mate...or is it? My move isn't complete, but how do you know that? I don't have to press my clock after a mating move, but until I do my move isn't complete... 

Every now and again they change the rules so that you have to move your king first when castling, but then they change it back. 

Jonathan