[Retros] Building a complete and friendly retro library

[Otto Janko]

Hi Andy & All,

I fully agree with you.

A Wiki is a thing which in ancient times (a few years ago) was called "free
text database". A "real" (i.e. relational) database like the PDB is highly
structured and allows only content which is forseen by the designer of the
database, while a Wiki allows any content. In a DB the structure is
predefined, while in a Wiki the structure grows as content is added. A DB
requires restructuring if content originally not forseen shouild be added,
and a Wiki requires restructuring after it becomes unstructured. The main
difference is that the DB requires restructuring before adding additional
content, while the Wiki ist restructured after the new content exists. 

I already proposed to use PDB as database (in the private mail discussion
with Roberto and Nicolas). 

The Wiki is not intended to replace the Retro Corner or the PDB or other
large collections of problems; but collections of problems should be able to
reference to the Wiki for explanations which are correct and up-to-date.
Just like the links to the glossary in the stipulations of the Retro Corner.

Maybe it is possible to integrate a PDB front-end into the Wiki?

I have no intention to move the collection of Retro problems from the Retro
Corner to te Wiki. However, all the other stuff should be moved: Glossary,
book list, article list, tournament announcements (anyone can add a
tournament announcement without involvind me!), etc.

Another thing I already implemented is the PHP stuff which generates a
diagram out of a (fairy) FEN. This was a little bit tricky because the Wiki
software does not allow PHP scrips as images. You can find it there:

http://retrowiki.janko.at/index.php/Help:Diagrams

This also helps to keep the look and feel of the Wiki consistent. 

~ÔttÔ~
 


> -----Original Message-----

> From: retros-bounces at janko.at 

> [mailto:retros-bounces at janko.at] On Behalf Of andrew buchanan

> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:21 AM

> To: The Retrograde Analysis Mailing List

> Subject: Re: [Retros] Building a complete and friendly retro library

> 

> Hi,

> 

> We need a hybrid wiki+database.

> 

> At bottom, we need to have a *database* of problems which can be

> searched along various flexible criteria. Existing wikis don't have

> that requirement. But a pure database, like PDB, is not quite enough

> because it doesn't allow for non-relational concepts (e.g. chess

> conventions, articles about pawn promotion checkmates) to be grafted

> on. A wiki would obviously be ideal for that.

> 

> All problems should be stored in the database. There should be a

> facility to get output as a list of FENs, not just a graphical output

> as in PDB currently.

> 

> There is then the question of data. Much historical data can be

> migrated from existing online sources. However I think that priority

> should be given to established procedures so that that all new

> published problems (including the "best of" RML?) appear in 

> the system.

> Over time, one can back fill the historical stuff.

> 

> Cheers,

> Andy

> 

> 

> 

> --- Oliver Sick <oliver.sick at web.de> wrote:

> 

> > Hello,

> > 

> > Very good idea. Thanks to Otto Janko and good luck.

> > 

> > Some remarks. I think it would be even more valuable, if it would be

> > embedded in a larger chess problem wiki intended fot the larger

> > community of all problemists. 

> > 

> > Good reasons are:

> > 

> > - A wiki would grow faster if more people were involved. And in fact

> > there are other attempts to establish a problem chess wiki (eg. I´ve

> > set up a very very early and raw wiki at cpwiki.oliversick.de, at

> > this stage it is not more than a playground ).  Involving a bigger

> > audience helps to promote such an amibitious project like a wiki.

> > 

> > - Especially things like fairy chess conditions, author

> > informations,...are of general value for all problemists. If there

> > were several sources for chess problem definitions  the real  danger

> > of inconsistent informations would be given. 

> > 

> > - I know of some problemists who are working on a fairy (offline)

> > chess encyclopedia. Perhaps they could be motivated to 

> participate in

> > an online fairy encyclopedia.

> > 

> > What do you think? 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > Best

> > Oliver Sick

> > 

> > ----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----

> > Von: raosorio at fibertel.com.ar

> > An: retros at janko.at

> > Gesendet: 17.05.08 15:05

> > Betreff: [Retros] Building a complete and friendly retro library

> > 

> > 

> > Hi friends,

> > 

> > We were discussing with Nicolas Dupont about the necessity of having

> > an ordered,

> > complete and friendly source to easily get the PGs state of the art

> > in every respect.

> > 

> > We were focussed on PGs but after some interaction with Otto Janko

> > this concept

> > was extended to all the retroanalysis specialties.

> > 

> > Otto informed us that he started some time ago a retro-wiki targeted

> > to build such a

> > source but this initiative had no too much success in the RML.

> > 

> > It's perhaps a matter of communication, so I propose to start it

> > again. We agreed with

> > Otto that the best way would be to participate the retro community

> > via this RML

> >  in order to structure the wiki (which is as far as I understand a

> > very flexible tool) altogether.

> > 

> > I would like to remark what I have in mind: there are many problems,

> > articles, Awards,

> > comments, definitions, etc, published all over the world; an endless

> > ocean to be

> > navigated lonely. When one is trying to go deeper with 

> something it's

> > a must to start 

> > from its state of the art, but how to get it?

> > 

> > Magazines are the original source for most problems, articles, etc,

> > but places like the

> > Retrocorner are the natural (and indispensable) secondary source;

> > other way, how to

> > put the pieces altogether?

> > 

> > This should be started by an Otto's message indicating what 

> we should

> > define first in

> > order to build the wiki structure. The wiki is a tool and this

> > initiative will make sense if

> > the retroexperts collaborate filling it with contents; other way, it

> > would be an empty vessel.

> > 

> > (http://retrowiki.janko.at/.  is already fully functional;

> > nevertheless we should wait 

> > to edit it until some agreement about the desired structure is

> > reached on the RML).

> > 

> > Some messages from the retro community supporting this initiative

> > would be very appreciated.

> > 

> > Best,

> > Roberto Osorio

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > 

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