[Retros] Improvement of the Retro Corner?

[Otto Janko]

Hi juha & All,
 
It's nice improvement now. Here are many people who can javascript well -
some of them will take a challenge surely.

Maybe. Let's see. Experience with the Retro Wiki shows that the willingness
of the Retro community to help to improve the Retro Corner is relatively
low. 
 
However, is it worth the effort?
 
It's easily improved for retros as well - actually for many retrotypes, you
can play game backwards.

Yes, but the script cannot read a backwards notation. All backwards
solutions must be converted to forward play from a defined starting position
(the script can process standard FEN). Maybe a converter programm can help a
little bit, but again: Is is worth the effort?
 
For fairy things, moves must be defined one by one and that's quite
difficult to maintain.
And you cannot ever define all (you can always find new things) fairy types.

What is really needed is a script that reads a notation which is independent
from the chess rules. For example, Nf3 assumes that the script knows what a
kNight is and how it moves. Contrary, Sg1-f3 is independent from the chess
rules. All the script must know is the graphical representation of a N. But
this is not enough. For example, we need some abstract notation for rebirth,
imitators, and so on. This would be an extension of the PGN just like
Joost's extension of FEN for Fairy FEN. (And yes, the script should also be
able to interpret FFEN.)
 
Another urgent improvement would be to add a keyboard interface. I find it
annoying to click the "next move" button 30+ times in a row.
 
Again: Is is worth the effort?
 
Thomas Maeder, are you still there? Years ago you started a project to
define an XML representation of chess problems *including* (fairy) Retro
problems. Is there any result?
 
~ÔttÔ~



  _____  

From: retros-bounces at janko.at [mailto:retros-bounces at janko.at] On Behalf Of
Juha Saukkola
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:33 AM
To: retros at janko.at
Subject: Re: [Retros] Improvement of the Retro Corner?


It's nice improvement now. Here are many people who can javascript well -
some of them will take
a challenge surely.
 
It's easily improved for retros as well - actually for many retrotypes, you
can play game backwards.
 
For fairy things, moves must be defined one by one and that's quite
difficult to maintain.
And you cannot ever define all (you can always find new things) fairy types.
 
Juha

  _____  

From: otto at janko.at
To: retros at janko.at
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:03:16 +0200
Subject: [Retros] Improvement of the Retro Corner?


Hi Juha,
 
Something like this?
 
  http://www.janko.at/Retros/Schwalbe/N240.htm
 
(Click on the solution button of problem 14316, 14317 or 14318.)
 
Unfortunately, there are several issues:
 
1. The script is useful for forward play only. Basically, in Retro analysis
it is only useful for proof games.
 
2. The script does not support fairy pieces, fairy boards, etc.
 
3. The effort to integrate a "playable solution" in a HTML page is
relatively high and includes manually editing the HTML code. Many solitions
in the Retro Corner are not suitable for the script; comments must be
stripped, errors must be corrected (e.g. S for N), etc. 
 
4. The effort to integrate the script in already existing pages is even
higher
 
5. The script (I found it on the Web) has already ~3000 lines. It is
difficult for any other person than the author to understand and modify it
(e.g. for support of a broader range of Retro problems like retractors).
Moreover, my skills in Javascript are very limited.
 

Is anyone aware of a script that is more suitable for Retro problems? 
 
 
Best Regards,
 
- Otto Janko [mailto:otto at janko.at] [http://www.janko.at]
-- Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, 
- will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. [Benjamin Franklin]
 
 


  _____  

From: retros-bounces at janko.at [mailto:retros-bounces at janko.at] On Behalf Of
Juha Saukkola
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 2:56 PM
To: retros at janko.at
Subject: Re: [Retros] Improvement of the Retro Corner?


I meant it would be nice to see game in the board (especially PG's).


> From: molware at xs4all.nl

> To: retros at janko.at

> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:44:21 +0200

> Subject: Re: [Retros] Improvement of the Retro Corner?

> 

> 

> To me the new feature is definately an improvement. It's fast and

> efficient and it looks very good.

> 

> Werner

> 

> 

> 

> On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 21:15 +0200, Otto Janko wrote:

> > Dear Retro Friends,

> > 

> > Please have a look at http://www.janko.at/Retros/Schwalbe/N240.htm and

click

> > on the "Solution" button. 

> > 

> > Provided that your browser supports basic CSS (every modern browser does

> > this) and provided that your browser supports basic Javascript and

> > Javascript is enabled, the solution should be shown inline. A second

click

> > hides the solution again.

> > 

> > Compare this to http://www.janko.at/Retros/Schwalbe/N239.htm -- is the

new

> > feature an appreciated improvement or should we stay with the classic

link

> > mechanism?

> > 

> > Best Regards,

> > 

> > - Otto Janko [mailto:otto at janko.at] [http://www.janko.at]

> > -- Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, 

> > - will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. [Benjamin Franklin]

> > 

> > _______________________________________________

> > Retros mailing list

> > Retros at janko.at

> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/retros

> 

> 

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