surprise! god springs from each of us...
Wayne Johnson
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Tue Mar 30 17:24:04 2004
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I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck had been de-frocked at one time. =
Were there two reverend-slash-veterinareans in Austin named Buck?
wj
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frances Morey=20
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: surprise! god springs from each of us...
Judy,
Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, that is said to =
be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in East =
Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend Dr. =
Louis Buck. It was through his wit and wisdom that so many of us learned =
to love men of faith. That church was where I shook the Bishop's hand, =
at Louis Buck's Memorial, when he extended me his ring. Louis would have =
approved.
Frances
Monty/Judy <m.herr@comcast.net> wrote:
Francis - I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about =
the
UU Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and =
celebrations
around Austin=20
Judith M. Herr
Well Chosen Words
herrj@comcast.net
925-443-4514; 925-989-3723 (mobile)
925-292-1419 (FAX)
-----Original Message-----
From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Frances =
Morey
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...
tele,
Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all alike to me--just kidding. =
You
make it sound like a delightful place. Thanks for the link. I have =
known
some wonderful East Indians, some of whom have become lifelong =
friends.
Frances
--- On Tue 03/30, telebob &! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
From: telebob [mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]
To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29 -0600
Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...
class=3D484063816-30032004>Jesus=20
Frances! That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. That =
is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.
class=3D484063816-30032004>=20
=
class=3D484063816-30032004>href=3D"http://barsanadham.org">http://barsana=
dham.org>
class=3D484063816-30032004>=20
class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
are great people and it is wonderful little community out there. =
They have
some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their =
calendar and
attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year for =
several=20
years. They loved the elephant rides and the henna=20
'tattoos'.
class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
have the best peaches in Texas.
class=3D484063816-30032004>=20
class=3D484063816-30032004>Shree=20
Telebhob
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
From:=20
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Frances
Morey
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM
To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Subject: Re: surprise! god is
in=20
each of us...
Pepi,
I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the one =
out
290=20
on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming gold =
tile
on the=20
entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I would =
love=20
to view it up close, and see what the service is like. I thought=20
Gregorian chant in the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was
wonderful.
Francse
Pepi Plowman=20
wrote:
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#1010ff 2px
solid">The=20
only thing I ever liked about church was the
music. The sermons put
me to=20
sleep. We had one
fairly intelligent and educated minister at=20
our
community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with
the=20
Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he
sometimes gave thought=20
provoking sermons, but then we
got a fire and brimstone guy and
everyone=20
slept
through his exhortations. He was always trying to
save=20
somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked
Quaker meeting
because=20
it was quiet sometimes, except
for when people got up to speak. The=20
Episcopalians and
Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and=20
repeat
after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any
kind or
a=20
mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all
the major choral works,=20
especially Bach. I sang them
! in choirs in highschool and later.
There was=20
some
totally inspired church music written that makes me
want to
fly=20
when I hear it.
pep
--- Wayne Johnson=20
wrote:
> My problem is that most of my early=20
Church
> experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon
>=20
protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other
> religions whilst
insisting that Jesus should be the
> half back on your football
team.=20
This drivel would
> stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed=20
to
> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The
> single=20
person of deep religious faith that I knew
> personally and
respected=20
was Rev. Heinsohn of the
> University Methodist Church on the Drag.
I=20
worked
> there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at
>=20
UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and
> his sermons
were=20
absent of cli! che or dumb harangues.
> By any measure, a great person
and a credit to our
> species.
>=20
> wj
> -----=20
Original Message -----=20
> From: Frances Morey=20
> To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54
PM
> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
>=20
>=20
> Wayne,
> These incidences of kindness are multiplied
>=20
thousands of times as church members all over are
> moved to help=20
their fellow humans. I've seen it in
> action and even experienced=20
some of it myself in my
> darkest moments. The church is the Other=20
place, away
> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the
>=20
marketplace, where people can be quite and
> contemplative in=20
humility, surrounded by peace and
> quiet or ethereal music, and=20
participating in the
> familiar and predictable process of the=20
liturgy, if
! > a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating=20
with
> the singing of hymns, if they happen to be
> protestant.=20
I always prefered the Catholic practice
> of keeping the whole
service=20
to an hour, homily and
> all. That is merely the excuse for being=20
together,
> though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in
>=20
which we immerse ourselves and the churches are
> places we are able
to find other humans who are
> capable and willing to express good=20
will--I believe
> that is so, anyway. My church experiences have=20
been
> as described and if not I certainly let them hear
> about=20
it. But that's another story.
> Frances=20
>=20
> Wayne=20
Johnson wrote:
> I just found out yesterday
that=20
a very dear
> friend of our in Reston has
> contract ALS and it=20
has already progessed to the
> point where he can barely
! > brush=20
his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and
> his wife had joined=20
a
> local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and
> these=20
good people have
> taken it upon themselves to provide a world=20
of
> kindness, gentleness, love
> and direct physical and=20
emotional assistance to
> him and his wife. This
> includes=20
visits, shopping trips with and without
> him, food deliveries=20
and
> compansionship.
>=20
> To my old timey way of=20
thinking, this is what
> "churches" used to do: love
> people=20
and be supportive of those in need. Every
> so often it is good (for
me
> in particular) to be reminded that there are
> those who=20
actually practice
> what their religion suggests is=20
"Christian"
> behavior. Of course, the
> Unitarians aren't=20
exactly boil! er-plate,
> orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe
>=20
Ben ! Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.
> Washington as well.=20
Not
> exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these
> congregations=20
accept neo-pagan
> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
other
> church I have found with
> similar sentiments was a=20
(Scottish) Episcopal
> church in Campbell, CA.
> Campbell being=20
vurrry Scottish as a person and a
> clan.
>=20
> Anyway.=20
Have to say sometimes the sysems works
> and works to the benefit=20
of
> some who really, really deserve it.
>=20
> wj
>=20
----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Pepi Plowman"=20
> To:=20
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
> Subject: RE: let's=20
not do nuance
>=20
>=20
> > Wayne, Judy, Tele,
>=20
>
> > I'm with you all the way on the first part.
> God,=20
what
> > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate
>=20
further,!=20
> > below...
> > --- telebob wrote:
> >=20
> Wayne-
> > >
> > >! ; I think as you do, and=20
thank you for
> reminding us
> > > that most priests=20
and
> > > factotems are basically criminals who spread
>=20
> > cultural myths
> >
> > totally. Myths that=20
preceded that particular
> religion
> > which the priests and=20
factotems accepted as
> truth and
> > preached, or myths that=20
were flagrantly made
> up to
> > suit a cultural bias in=20
order to bring more
> ignorant
> > humans to the=20
"fold".
> >
> > (all the better
> > > if they=20
believe what they preach, it makes
> it easier
> > > for=20
them to sleep)in
> > > order to retain and extend personal=20
and
> > > institutional power. This is not to
> > > say that there are no benefits, since those
> common
> > >=20
mythyologies help to
> > > create a 'public order' no matter=20
what the
> standard.
> > > Are religious
> > >=20
societies 'better' than secular societies?
> >
> > Fuck,=20
no!
> >
> > How do
> > > ! we measure? These=20
are
> > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and
> indeed=20
you
> > > know they are out there
> > > discussing=20
this shit still, like a bunch of
> > > sophomores who have=20
just
> > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
> >
> > How=20
dare they abuse us by discussing them?!
> State and
> >=20
religion should not mix, Point!
> > >
> > > But my=20
dad, who was a doctor, was in a
> > > 'philosophical' mood one=20
night, a
> > > little in his cups,! and he related. "I=20
watch
> people
> > > die and people born
> > >=20
every day as a part of my job, and all I can
> say is,
> >=20
> 'Where does the flame
> > > go when it goes out?' Does the=20
flame have a
> soul?"
> >
> > So, did he ever answer=20
his question, or did he
> just
> > ask?
> >
>=20
> > He was not a religious
> > > man, though he tried to=20
keep up appearances.
> On the
> > > other hand, he=20
was
> > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his
>=20
taxes and
> > > never breaking a traffic
> > >=20
law.
> > >
> > > So when we are approached by 'holy=20
men' of
> any
> > > stripe, know you are being
>=20
> > approached by the powers of darkness.
> >
> > Do=20
you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman
> out
> >=20
there?!
> >
> > This includes
> > > rabbis,=20
priests,
> > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my
>=20
faith in
> > > the scientific method and
> > > its=20
self correcting process.
> > >
> >
> > Man,=20
I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
> > correcting process"=20
inflicted on me by a
> source
> > outside myself (like=20
doctors and lawyers and
> > policemen) when I had resources=20
available to
> me that
>=20
=3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
=3D=3D=3D
__________________________________
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Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on=20
time.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck =
had been=20
de-frocked at one time. Were there two =
reverend-slash-veterinareans in=20
Austin named Buck?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances=20
Morey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 30, 2004 =
2:48=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: surprise! god =
springs from=20
each of us...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Judy,</DIV>
<DIV>Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, that is =
said to=20
be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in =
East=20
Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend =
Dr. Louis=20
Buck. It was through his wit and wisdom that so many of =
us=20
learned to love men of faith. That church was where I shook the =
Bishop's=20
hand, at Louis Buck's Memorial, when he extended me his=20
ring. Louis would have approved.</DIV>
<DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Monty/Judy =
<m.herr@comcast.net></I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">Francis=20
- I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about =
the<BR>UU=20
Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and=20
celebrations<BR>around Austin <BR><BR>Judith M. Herr<BR>Well Chosen=20
Words<BR>herrj@comcast.net<BR>925-443-4514; 925-989-3723=20
(mobile)<BR>925-292-1419 (FAX)<BR><BR><BR>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR>From:=20
=
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin=
@pairlist.net]=20
On Behalf Of Frances Morey<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 =
AM<BR>To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is in =
each of=20
us...<BR><BR><BR>tele,<BR>Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all =
alike to=20
me--just kidding. You<BR>make it sound like a delightful place. =
Thanks for=20
the link. I have known<BR>some wonderful East Indians, some of whom =
have=20
become lifelong friends.<BR>Frances<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On Tue =
03/30,=20
telebob &! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net > wrote:<BR>From: =
telebob=20
[mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]<BR>To:=20
austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29=20
-0600<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of =
us...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>Jesus =
<BR>Frances! That is=20
NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road. That <BR>is =
Barsana Dam,=20
and it is an Indian Hindu community.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
<br>class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004><A=20
=
<br>href=3D"http://barsanadham.org">http://barsanadham.org</A></SPAN><=
/FONT></DIV<BR>><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
<br>class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>They <BR>are great =
people and it=20
is wonderful little community out there. They have<BR><BR>some =
very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their =
calendar=20
and<BR><BR>attend. I used to go with my daughter and stepson =
every=20
year for several <BR>years. They loved the elephant rides and =
the=20
henna <BR>'tattoos'.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>They <BR>have the =
best peaches=20
in Texas.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
<br>class=3D484063816-30032004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004>Shree=20
<BR>Telebhob</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
<br>size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
<BR>austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
<BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>Frances<BR><BR>Morey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 29, 2004 =
11:43=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
<BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
Re: surprise! god is<BR>in <BR>each of =
us...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV>Pepi,</DIV><BR>
<DIV>I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the =
one=20
out<BR>290 <BR>on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth =
of=20
gleaming gold tile<BR>on the <BR>entrance built up so high you can =
see it=20
from the road. I would love <BR>to view it up close, and see =
what the=20
service is like. I thought <BR>Gregorian chant in the Chapel at =
Our Lady=20
of the Lake was<BR>wonderful.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Francse<BR><BR><B><I>Pepi Plowman=20
<PEPSTOIL@YAHOO.COM></I></B><BR>wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq <br>style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;=20
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px<BR>solid">The <BR>only thing I ever =
liked=20
about church was the<BR>music. The sermons put<BR>me to =
<BR>sleep. We=20
had one<BR>fairly intelligent and educated minister at=20
<BR>our<BR>community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it =
with<BR>the=20
<BR>Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he<BR>sometimes =
gave=20
thought <BR>provoking sermons, but then we<BR>got a fire and =
brimstone=20
guy and<BR>everyone <BR>slept<BR>through his exhortations. He =
was always=20
trying to<BR>save <BR>somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I =
liked<BR>Quaker meeting<BR>because <BR>it was quiet sometimes,=20
except<BR>for when people got up to speak. The <BR>Episcopalians =
and<BR>Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and=20
<BR>repeat<BR>after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of =
any<BR>kind=20
or<BR>a <BR>mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all<BR>the =
major=20
choral works, <BR>especially Bach. I sang them<BR>! in choirs in =
highschool and later.<BR>There was <BR>some<BR>totally inspired =
church=20
music written that makes me<BR>want to<BR>fly <BR>when I hear=20
it.<BR>pep<BR>--- Wayne Johnson =
<BR><CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>>=20
My problem is that most of my early <BR>Church<BR>> =
experience was=20
filled with horrid white anglo saxon<BR>> <BR>protestant =
hypocricy=20
and utter dismissal of other<BR>> religions =
whilst<BR><BR>insisting=20
that Jesus should be the<BR>> half back on your =
football<BR>team.=20
<BR>This drivel would<BR>> stun a ground hog for its =
imbecility but=20
seemed <BR>to<BR>> go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties.=20
The<BR>> single <BR>person of deep religious faith that I=20
knew<BR>> personally and<BR>respected <BR>was Rev. Heinsohn =
of=20
the<BR>> University Methodist Church on the Drag.<BR>I=20
<BR>worked<BR>> there as a night-time custodian whilst a =
student=20
at<BR>> <BR>UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar=20
and<BR>> his sermons<BR>were <BR>absent of cli! che or dumb=20
harangues.<BR>> By any measure, a great person<BR><BR>and a =
credit to=20
our<BR>> species.<BR>> <BR>> wj<BR>> ----- =
<BR>Original=20
Message ----- <BR>> From: Frances Morey <BR>> To:=20
<BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net <BR>> Sent: Sunday, March =
28,=20
2004 7:54<BR><BR>PM<BR>> Subject: Re: surprise! god is in =
each of=20
us...<BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>> Wayne,<BR>> These =
incidences of=20
kindness are multiplied<BR>> <BR>thousands of times as church =
members=20
all over are<BR>> moved to help <BR>their fellow humans. I've =
seen it=20
in<BR>> action and even experienced <BR>some of it myself in=20
my<BR>> darkest moments. The church is the Other <BR>place,=20
away<BR>> from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the<BR>> =
<BR>marketplace, where people can be quite and<BR>> =
contemplative in=20
<BR>humility, surrounded by peace and<BR>> quiet or ethereal =
music,=20
and <BR>participating in the<BR>> familiar and predictable =
process of=20
the <BR>liturgy, if<BR>! > a Mass, or listening to =
preachments=20
alternating <BR>with<BR>> the singing of hymns, if they =
happen to=20
be<BR>> protestant. <BR>I always prefered the Catholic=20
practice<BR>> of keeping the whole<BR>service <BR>to an hour, =
homily=20
and<BR>> all. That is merely the excuse for being=20
<BR>together,<BR>> though. Perhaps god is really the human =
matrix=20
in<BR>> <BR>which we immerse ourselves and the churches =
are<BR>>=20
places we are able<BR><BR>to find other humans who are<BR>> =
capable=20
and willing to express good <BR>will--I believe<BR>> that is =
so,=20
anyway. My church experiences have <BR>been<BR>> as described =
and if=20
not I certainly let them hear<BR>> about <BR>it. But that's =
another=20
story.<BR>> Frances <BR>> <BR>> Wayne <BR>Johnson=20
<CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> I just found out =
yesterday<BR>that=20
<BR>a very dear<BR>> friend of our in Reston has<BR>> =
contract ALS=20
and it <BR>has already progessed to the<BR>> point where he =
can=20
barely<BR>! > brush <BR>his teeth and can't clothe himself. =
He=20
and<BR>> his wife had joined <BR>a<BR>> local Unitarian =
church a=20
couple of years ago and<BR>> these <BR>good people =
have<BR>> taken=20
it upon themselves to provide a world <BR>of<BR>> kindness,=20
gentleness, love<BR>> and direct physical and <BR>emotional=20
assistance to<BR>> him and his wife. This<BR>> includes=20
<BR>visits, shopping trips with and without<BR>> him, food =
deliveries=20
<BR>and<BR>> compansionship.<BR>> <BR>> To my old timey =
way of=20
<BR>thinking, this is what<BR>> "churches" used to do: =
love<BR>>=20
people <BR>and be supportive of those in need. Every<BR>> so =
often it=20
is good (for<BR><BR>me<BR>> in particular) to be reminded =
that there=20
are<BR>> those who <BR>actually practice<BR>> what their =
religion=20
suggests is <BR>"Christian"<BR>> behavior. Of course, =
the<BR>>=20
Unitarians aren't <BR>exactly boil! er-plate,<BR>> orthodox,=20
Holey-Rollers. I believe<BR>> <BR>Ben ! Franklin was a =
Unitarian and=20
possibly G.<BR>> Washington as well. <BR>Not<BR>> exactly =
Bible=20
thumpers. Many of these<BR>> congregations <BR>accept=20
neo-pagan<BR>> beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
<BR>other<BR>> church I have found with<BR>> similar =
sentiments=20
was a <BR>(Scottish) Episcopal<BR>> church in Campbell, =
CA.<BR>>=20
Campbell being <BR>vurrry Scottish as a person and a<BR>>=20
clan.<BR>> <BR>> Anyway. <BR>Have to say sometimes the =
sysems=20
works<BR>> and works to the benefit <BR>of<BR>> some who =
really,=20
really deserve it.<BR>> <BR>> wj<BR>> <BR>----- =
Original=20
Message ----- <BR>> From: "Pepi Plowman" <BR>> To: =
<BR><BR>>=20
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM<BR>> Subject: RE: =
let's=20
<BR>not do nuance<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Wayne, Judy,=20
Tele,<BR>> <BR>><BR>> > I'm with you all the way on =
the=20
first part.<BR>> God, <BR>what<BR>> > God? Which God? =
But allow=20
me to elaborate<BR>> <BR>further,! <BR>> > =
below...<BR>>=20
> --- telebob wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> Wayne-<BR>> =
>=20
><BR>> > >! ; I think as you do, and <BR>thank you=20
for<BR>> reminding us<BR>> > > that most priests=20
<BR>and<BR>> > > factotems are basically criminals who=20
spread<BR>> <BR>> > cultural myths<BR>> ><BR>> =
>=20
totally. Myths that <BR>preceded that particular<BR>>=20
religion<BR>> > which the priests and <BR>factotems =
accepted=20
as<BR>> truth and<BR>> > preached, or myths that =
<BR>were=20
flagrantly made<BR>> up to<BR>> > suit a cultural bias =
in=20
<BR>order to bring more<BR>> ignorant<BR>> > humans to =
the=20
<BR>"fold".<BR>> ><BR>> > (all the better<BR>> =
> >=20
if they <BR>believe what they preach, it makes<BR>> it =
easier<BR>>=20
> > for <BR>them to sleep)in<BR>> > > order to =
retain and=20
extend personal <BR>and<BR>> > > institutional power. =
This is=20
not to<BR>> > > <B! R>say that there are no benefits, =
since=20
those<BR>> common<BR>> > > <BR>mythyologies help =
to<BR>>=20
> > create a 'public order' no matter <BR>what the<BR>> =
standard.<BR>> > > Are religious<BR>> > >=20
<BR>societies 'better' than secular societies?<BR>> =
><BR>> >=20
Fuck, <BR>no!<BR>> ><BR>> > How do<BR>> > > =
! we=20
measure? These <BR>are<BR>> > > topics worthy of =
millions of=20
tomes, and<BR>> indeed <BR>you<BR>> > > know they =
are out=20
there<BR>> > > discussing <BR>this shit still, like a =
bunch=20
of<BR>> > > sophomores who have <BR>just<BR>> > =
>=20
dicovered 'philosophy'.<BR>> ><BR>> > How <BR>dare =
they=20
abuse us by discussing them?!<BR>> State and<BR>> >=20
<BR>religion should not mix, Point!<BR>> > ><BR>> =
> >=20
But my <BR>dad, who was a doctor, was in a<BR>> > >=20
'philosophical' mood one <BR>night, a<BR>> > > little =
in his=20
cups,! and he related. "I <BR>watch<BR>> people<BR>> > =
> die=20
and people born<BR>> > > <BR>every day as a part of my =
job, and=20
all I can<BR>> say is,<BR>> > <BR>> 'Where does the=20
flame<BR>> > > go when it goes out?' Does the <BR>flame =
have=20
a<BR>> soul?"<BR>> ><BR>> > So, did he ever =
answer=20
<BR>his question, or did he<BR>> just<BR>> > =
ask?<BR>>=20
><BR>> <BR>> > He was not a religious<BR>> > =
> man,=20
though he tried to <BR>keep up appearances.<BR>> On =
the<BR>> >=20
> other hand, he <BR>was<BR>> > > 'moral' person w! =
ho=20
enjoyed overpaying his<BR>> <BR>taxes and<BR>> > > =
never=20
breaking a traffic<BR>> > > <BR>law.<BR>> > =
><BR>>=20
> > So when we are approached by 'holy <BR>men' of<BR>> =
any<BR>> > > stripe, know you are being<BR>> =
<BR>> >=20
approached by the powers of darkness.<BR>> ><BR>> > =
Do=20
<BR>you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman<BR>> =
out<BR>> >=20
<BR>there?!<BR>> ><BR>> > This includes<BR>> > =
>=20
rabbis, <BR>priests,<BR>> > > mullahs, and most =
medicine men. I=20
put my<BR>> <BR>faith in<BR>> > > the scientific =
method=20
and<BR>> > > its <BR>self correcting process.<BR>> =
>=20
><BR>> ><BR>> > Man, <BR>I'd hate to be on the =
back end=20
of a "self<BR>> > correcting process" <BR>inflicted on me =
by=20
a<BR>> source<BR>> > outside myself (like <BR>doctors =
and=20
lawyers and<BR>> > policemen) when I had resources =
<BR>available=20
to<BR>> me that<BR>> <BR>=3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
=
<BR>=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you=20
<BR>Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on=20
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