surprise! god springs from each of us...

Wayne Johnson austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
Tue Mar 30 17:24:04 2004


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I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck had been de-frocked at one time.  =
Were there two reverend-slash-veterinareans in Austin named Buck?

wj
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Frances Morey=20
  To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
  Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:48 PM
  Subject: RE: surprise! god springs from each of us...


  Judy,
  Another one that I haven't made yet, here in Austin, that is said to =
be musically divine is St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in East =
Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend Dr. =
Louis Buck. It was through his wit and wisdom that so many of us learned =
to love men of faith. That church was where I shook the Bishop's hand, =
at Louis Buck's Memorial, when he extended me his ring. Louis would have =
approved.
  Frances

  Monty/Judy <m.herr@comcast.net> wrote:
    Francis - I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about =
the
    UU Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and =
celebrations
    around Austin=20

    Judith M. Herr
    Well Chosen Words
    herrj@comcast.net
    925-443-4514; 925-989-3723 (mobile)
    925-292-1419 (FAX)


    -----Original Message-----
    From: austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net
    [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net] On Behalf Of Frances =
Morey
    Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM
    To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
    Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...


    tele,
    Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all alike to me--just kidding. =
You
    make it sound like a delightful place. Thanks for the link. I have =
known
    some wonderful East Indians, some of whom have become lifelong =
friends.
    Frances




    --- On Tue 03/30, telebob &! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net > wrote:
    From: telebob [mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]
    To: austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
    Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29 -0600
    Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of us...







    class=3D484063816-30032004>Jesus=20
    Frances!  That is NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road.  That =

    is Barsana Dam, and it is an Indian Hindu community.


    class=3D484063816-30032004>=20


    =
class=3D484063816-30032004>href=3D"http://barsanadham.org">http://barsana=
dham.org>

    class=3D484063816-30032004>=20


    class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
    are great people and it is wonderful little community out there.  =
They have

    some very coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their =
calendar and

    attend.  I used to go with my daughter and stepson every year for =
several=20
    years.  They loved the elephant rides and the henna=20
    'tattoos'.


    class=3D484063816-30032004>They=20
    have the best peaches in Texas.


    class=3D484063816-30032004>=20


    class=3D484063816-30032004>Shree=20
    Telebhob




      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
      From:=20
      austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
      [mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]On Behalf Of Frances

      Morey
      Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:43 PM
      To:=20
      austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net
      Subject: Re: surprise! god is
      in=20
      each of us...




      Pepi,


      I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the one =
out
      290=20
      on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth of gleaming gold =
tile
      on the=20
      entrance built up so high you can see it from the road. I would =
love=20
      to view it up close, and see what the service is like. I thought=20
      Gregorian chant in the Chapel at Our Lady of the Lake was
      wonderful.


      Francse

      Pepi Plowman=20
      wrote:


        style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#1010ff 2px
        solid">The=20
        only thing I ever liked about church was the
        music. The sermons put
        me to=20
        sleep. We had one
        fairly intelligent and educated minister at=20
        our
        community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it with
        the=20
        Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he
        sometimes gave thought=20
        provoking sermons, but then we
        got a fire and brimstone guy and
        everyone=20
        slept
        through his exhortations. He was always trying to
        save=20
        somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I liked
        Quaker meeting
        because=20
        it was quiet sometimes, except
        for when people got up to speak. The=20
        Episcopalians and
        Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and=20
        repeat
        after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of any
        kind or
        a=20
        mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all
        the major choral works,=20
        especially Bach. I sang them
        ! in choirs in highschool and later.
        There was=20
        some
        totally inspired church music written that makes me
        want to
        fly=20
        when I hear it.
        pep
        --- Wayne Johnson=20
        wrote:
        > My problem is that most of my early=20
        Church
        > experience was filled with horrid white anglo saxon
        >=20
        protestant hypocricy and utter dismissal of other
        > religions whilst

        insisting that Jesus should be the
        > half back on your football
        team.=20
        This drivel would
        > stun a ground hog for its imbecility but seemed=20
        to
        > go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties. The
        > single=20
        person of deep religious faith that I knew
        > personally and
        respected=20
        was Rev. Heinsohn of the
        > University Methodist Church on the Drag.
        I=20
        worked
        > there as a night-time custodian whilst a student at
        >=20
        UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar and
        > his sermons
        were=20
        absent of cli! che or dumb harangues.
        > By any measure, a great person

        and a credit to our
        > species.
        >=20
        > wj
        > -----=20
        Original Message -----=20
        > From: Frances Morey=20
        > To:=20
        austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
        > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:54

        PM
        > Subject: Re: surprise! god is in each of us...
        >=20
        >=20

        > Wayne,
        > These incidences of kindness are multiplied
        >=20
        thousands of times as church members all over are
        > moved to help=20
        their fellow humans. I've seen it in
        > action and even experienced=20
        some of it myself in my
        > darkest moments. The church is the Other=20
        place, away
        > from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the
        >=20
        marketplace, where people can be quite and
        > contemplative in=20
        humility, surrounded by peace and
        > quiet or ethereal music, and=20
        participating in the
        > familiar and predictable process of the=20
        liturgy, if
        ! > a Mass, or listening to preachments alternating=20
        with
        > the singing of hymns, if they happen to be
        > protestant.=20
        I always prefered the Catholic practice
        > of keeping the whole
        service=20
        to an hour, homily and
        > all. That is merely the excuse for being=20
        together,
        > though. Perhaps god is really the human matrix in
        >=20
        which we immerse ourselves and the churches are
        > places we are able

        to find other humans who are
        > capable and willing to express good=20
        will--I believe
        > that is so, anyway. My church experiences have=20
        been
        > as described and if not I certainly let them hear
        > about=20
        it. But that's another story.
        > Frances=20
        >=20
        > Wayne=20
        Johnson wrote:
        > I just found out yesterday
        that=20
        a very dear
        > friend of our in Reston has
        > contract ALS and it=20
        has already progessed to the
        > point where he can barely
        ! > brush=20
        his teeth and can't clothe himself. He and
        > his wife had joined=20
        a
        > local Unitarian church a couple of years ago and
        > these=20
        good people have
        > taken it upon themselves to provide a world=20
        of
        > kindness, gentleness, love
        > and direct physical and=20
        emotional assistance to
        > him and his wife. This
        > includes=20
        visits, shopping trips with and without
        > him, food deliveries=20
        and
        > compansionship.
        >=20
        > To my old timey way of=20
        thinking, this is what
        > "churches" used to do: love
        > people=20
        and be supportive of those in need. Every
        > so often it is good (for

        me
        > in particular) to be reminded that there are
        > those who=20
        actually practice
        > what their religion suggests is=20
        "Christian"
        > behavior. Of course, the
        > Unitarians aren't=20
        exactly boil! er-plate,
        > orthodox, Holey-Rollers. I believe
        >=20
        Ben ! Franklin was a Unitarian and possibly G.
        > Washington as well.=20
        Not
        > exactly Bible thumpers. Many of these
        > congregations=20
        accept neo-pagan
        > beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
        other
        > church I have found with
        > similar sentiments was a=20
        (Scottish) Episcopal
        > church in Campbell, CA.
        > Campbell being=20
        vurrry Scottish as a person and a
        > clan.
        >=20
        > Anyway.=20
        Have to say sometimes the sysems works
        > and works to the benefit=20
        of
        > some who really, really deserve it.
        >=20
        > wj
        >=20
        ----- Original Message -----=20
        > From: "Pepi Plowman"=20
        > To:=20

        > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM
        > Subject: RE: let's=20
        not do nuance
        >=20
        >=20
        > > Wayne, Judy, Tele,
        >=20
        >
        > > I'm with you all the way on the first part.
        > God,=20
        what
        > > God? Which God? But allow me to elaborate
        >=20
        further,!=20
        > > below...
        > > --- telebob wrote:
        > >=20
        > Wayne-
        > > >
        > > >! ; I think as you do, and=20
        thank you for
        > reminding us
        > > > that most priests=20
        and
        > > > factotems are basically criminals who spread
        >=20
        > > cultural myths
        > >
        > > totally. Myths that=20
        preceded that particular
        > religion
        > > which the priests and=20
        factotems accepted as
        > truth and
        > > preached, or myths that=20
        were flagrantly made
        > up to
        > > suit a cultural bias in=20
        order to bring more
        > ignorant
        > > humans to the=20
        "fold".
        > >
        > > (all the better
        > > > if they=20
        believe what they preach, it makes
        > it easier
        > > > for=20
        them to sleep)in
        > > > order to retain and extend personal=20
        and
        > > > institutional power. This is not to
        > > > say that there are no benefits, since those
        > common
        > > >=20
        mythyologies help to
        > > > create a 'public order' no matter=20
        what the
        > standard.
        > > > Are religious
        > > >=20
        societies 'better' than secular societies?
        > >
        > > Fuck,=20
        no!
        > >
        > > How do
        > > > ! we measure? These=20
        are
        > > > topics worthy of millions of tomes, and
        > indeed=20
        you
        > > > know they are out there
        > > > discussing=20
        this shit still, like a bunch of
        > > > sophomores who have=20
        just
        > > > dicovered 'philosophy'.
        > >
        > > How=20
        dare they abuse us by discussing them?!
        > State and
        > >=20
        religion should not mix, Point!
        > > >
        > > > But my=20
        dad, who was a doctor, was in a
        > > > 'philosophical' mood one=20
        night, a
        > > > little in his cups,! and he related. "I=20
        watch
        > people
        > > > die and people born
        > > >=20
        every day as a part of my job, and all I can
        > say is,
        > >=20
        > 'Where does the flame
        > > > go when it goes out?' Does the=20
        flame have a
        > soul?"
        > >
        > > So, did he ever answer=20
        his question, or did he
        > just
        > > ask?
        > >
        >=20
        > > He was not a religious
        > > > man, though he tried to=20
        keep up appearances.
        > On the
        > > > other hand, he=20
        was
        > > > 'moral' person w! ho enjoyed overpaying his
        >=20
        taxes and
        > > > never breaking a traffic
        > > >=20
        law.
        > > >
        > > > So when we are approached by 'holy=20
        men' of
        > any
        > > > stripe, know you are being
        >=20
        > > approached by the powers of darkness.
        > >
        > > Do=20
        you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman
        > out
        > >=20
        there?!
        > >
        > > This includes
        > > > rabbis,=20
        priests,
        > > > mullahs, and most medicine men. I put my
        >=20
        faith in
        > > > the scientific method and
        > > > its=20
        self correcting process.
        > > >
        > >
        > > Man,=20
        I'd hate to be on the back end of a "self
        > > correcting process"=20
        inflicted on me by a
        > source
        > > outside myself (like=20
        doctors and lawyers and
        > > policemen) when I had resources=20
        available to
        > me that
        >=20
        =3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
        =3D=3D=3D


        __________________________________
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        Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on=20
        time.
        http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html







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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought the Very Reverend Dr. Buck =
had been=20
de-frocked at one time.&nbsp; Were there two =
reverend-slash-veterinareans in=20
Austin named Buck?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>wj</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dfrances_morey@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:frances_morey@yahoo.com">Frances=20
  Morey</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3Daustin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net">austin-ghetto-list@pairli=
st.net</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 30, 2004 =
2:48=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: surprise! god =
springs from=20
  each of us...</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Judy,</DIV>
  <DIV>Another one that I haven't made yet,&nbsp;here in Austin, that is =
said to=20
  be musically divine is&nbsp;St. James' Episcopal on Airport Blvd. in =
East=20
  Austin. It was built and founded by non-other than the Very Reverend =
Dr. Louis=20
  Buck.&nbsp;It was through his&nbsp;wit and wisdom&nbsp;that so many of =
us=20
  learned to love men of faith. That church&nbsp;was where I shook the =
Bishop's=20
  hand, at Louis&nbsp;Buck's Memorial,&nbsp;when he extended me his=20
  ring.&nbsp;Louis would have approved.</DIV>
  <DIV>Frances<BR><BR><B><I>Monty/Judy =
&lt;m.herr@comcast.net&gt;</I></B>=20
  wrote:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">Francis=20
    - I recommend talking to Fontaine, Mary Jane, or Susan about =
the<BR>UU=20
    Church - they probably are tight with all of the faiths and=20
    celebrations<BR>around Austin <BR><BR>Judith M. Herr<BR>Well Chosen=20
    Words<BR>herrj@comcast.net<BR>925-443-4514; 925-989-3723=20
    (mobile)<BR>925-292-1419 (FAX)<BR><BR><BR>-----Original=20
    Message-----<BR>From:=20
    =
austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net<BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin=
@pairlist.net]=20
    On Behalf Of Frances Morey<BR>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 =
AM<BR>To:=20
    austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is in =
each of=20
    us...<BR><BR><BR>tele,<BR>Hindu, schmindu! Religions, they are all =
alike to=20
    me--just kidding. You<BR>make it sound like a delightful place. =
Thanks for=20
    the link. I have known<BR>some wonderful East Indians, some of whom =
have=20
    become lifelong friends.<BR>Frances<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--- On Tue =
03/30,=20
    telebob &amp;! lt; telebob@sbcglobal.net &gt; wrote:<BR>From: =
telebob=20
    [mailto: telebob@sbcglobal.net]<BR>To:=20
    austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:45:29=20
    -0600<BR>Subject: RE: surprise! god is in each of =
us...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
    <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR><BR><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;Jesus =
<BR>Frances!&nbsp; That is=20
    NOT a mosque out on Camp Ben McCullogh Road.&nbsp; That <BR>is =
Barsana Dam,=20
    and it is an Indian Hindu community.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    <br>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;</SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;<A=20
    =
<br>href=3D"http://barsanadham.org"&gt;http://barsanadham.org</A></SPAN><=
/FONT></DIV<BR>&gt;<BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    <br>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;</SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;They <BR>are great =
people and it=20
    is wonderful little community out there.&nbsp; They have<BR><BR>some =

    very&nbsp;coloful festivals, and I suggest you check out their =
calendar=20
    and<BR><BR>attend.&nbsp; I used to go with my daughter and stepson =
every=20
    year for several <BR>years.&nbsp; They loved the elephant rides and =
the=20
    henna <BR>'tattoos'.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;They <BR>have the =
best peaches=20
    in Texas.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    <br>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;</SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN<BR>class=3D484063816-30032004&gt;Shree=20
    <BR>Telebhob</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      <br>size=3D2&gt;-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
      <BR>austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net=20
      <BR>[mailto:austin-ghetto-list-admin@pairlist.net]<B>On Behalf Of=20
      </B>Frances<BR><BR>Morey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 29, 2004 =
11:43=20
      PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
<BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
      Re: surprise! god is<BR>in <BR>each of =
us...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR>
      <DIV>Pepi,</DIV><BR>
      <DIV>I have never been to a mosque either. We ought to go to the =
one=20
      out<BR>290 <BR>on the way to the Salt Lick. It has $38,000 worth =
of=20
      gleaming gold tile<BR>on the <BR>entrance built up so high you can =
see it=20
      from the road. I would love <BR>to&nbsp;view it up close, and see =
what the=20
      service is like. I thought <BR>Gregorian chant in the Chapel at =
Our Lady=20
      of the Lake was<BR>wonderful.</DIV><BR>
      <DIV>Francse<BR><BR><B><I>Pepi Plowman=20
      <PEPSTOIL@YAHOO.COM></I></B><BR>wrote:</DIV><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq <br>style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;=20
        BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px<BR>solid"&gt;The <BR>only thing I ever =
liked=20
        about church was the<BR>music. The sermons put<BR>me to =
<BR>sleep. We=20
        had one<BR>fairly intelligent and educated minister at=20
        <BR>our<BR>community church in Puerto La Cruz (we shared it =
with<BR>the=20
        <BR>Catholics, who came in for 8 a.m. mass)--he<BR>sometimes =
gave=20
        thought <BR>provoking sermons, but then we<BR>got a fire and =
brimstone=20
        guy and<BR>everyone <BR>slept<BR>through his exhortations. He =
was always=20
        trying to<BR>save <BR>somebody--kind of like a Jesus salesman. I =

        liked<BR>Quaker meeting<BR>because <BR>it was quiet sometimes,=20
        except<BR>for when people got up to speak. The <BR>Episcopalians =

        and<BR>Catholics seemed to do a lot of up and down and=20
        <BR>repeat<BR>after me stuff. I've never been to a temple of =
any<BR>kind=20
        or<BR>a <BR>mosque, for that matter. I'm crazy for all<BR>the =
major=20
        choral works, <BR>especially Bach. I sang them<BR>! in choirs in =

        highschool and later.<BR>There was <BR>some<BR>totally inspired =
church=20
        music written that makes me<BR>want to<BR>fly <BR>when I hear=20
        it.<BR>pep<BR>--- Wayne Johnson =
<BR><CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>&gt;=20
        My problem is that most of my early <BR>Church<BR>&gt; =
experience was=20
        filled with horrid white anglo saxon<BR>&gt; <BR>protestant =
hypocricy=20
        and utter dismissal of other<BR>&gt; religions =
whilst<BR><BR>insisting=20
        that Jesus should be the<BR>&gt; half back on your =
football<BR>team.=20
        <BR>This drivel would<BR>&gt; stun a ground hog for its =
imbecility but=20
        seemed <BR>to<BR>&gt; go over big in Georgetown in the Fifties.=20
        The<BR>&gt; single <BR>person of deep religious faith that I=20
        knew<BR>&gt; personally and<BR>respected <BR>was Rev. Heinsohn =
of=20
        the<BR>&gt; University Methodist Church on the Drag.<BR>I=20
        <BR>worked<BR>&gt; there as a night-time custodian whilst a =
student=20
        at<BR>&gt; <BR>UT. He was a gentleman, a true Biblical scholar=20
        and<BR>&gt; his sermons<BR>were <BR>absent of cli! che or dumb=20
        harangues.<BR>&gt; By any measure, a great person<BR><BR>and a =
credit to=20
        our<BR>&gt; species.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; wj<BR>&gt; ----- =
<BR>Original=20
        Message ----- <BR>&gt; From: Frances Morey <BR>&gt; To:=20
        <BR>austin-ghetto-list@pairlist.net <BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, March =
28,=20
        2004 7:54<BR><BR>PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: surprise! god is in =
each of=20
        us...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; Wayne,<BR>&gt; These =
incidences of=20
        kindness are multiplied<BR>&gt; <BR>thousands of times as church =
members=20
        all over are<BR>&gt; moved to help <BR>their fellow humans. I've =
seen it=20
        in<BR>&gt; action and even experienced <BR>some of it myself in=20
        my<BR>&gt; darkest moments. The church is the Other <BR>place,=20
        away<BR>&gt; from home and the husstle 'n' bustle of the<BR>&gt; =

        <BR>marketplace, where people can be quite and<BR>&gt; =
contemplative in=20
        <BR>humility, surrounded by peace and<BR>&gt; quiet or ethereal =
music,=20
        and <BR>participating in the<BR>&gt; familiar and predictable =
process of=20
        the <BR>liturgy, if<BR>! &gt; a Mass, or listening to =
preachments=20
        alternating <BR>with<BR>&gt; the singing of hymns, if they =
happen to=20
        be<BR>&gt; protestant. <BR>I always prefered the Catholic=20
        practice<BR>&gt; of keeping the whole<BR>service <BR>to an hour, =
homily=20
        and<BR>&gt; all. That is merely the excuse for being=20
        <BR>together,<BR>&gt; though. Perhaps god is really the human =
matrix=20
        in<BR>&gt; <BR>which we immerse ourselves and the churches =
are<BR>&gt;=20
        places we are able<BR><BR>to find other humans who are<BR>&gt; =
capable=20
        and willing to express good <BR>will--I believe<BR>&gt; that is =
so,=20
        anyway. My church experiences have <BR>been<BR>&gt; as described =
and if=20
        not I certainly let them hear<BR>&gt; about <BR>it. But that's =
another=20
        story.<BR>&gt; Frances <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wayne <BR>Johnson=20
        <CADAOBH@SHENTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>&gt; I just found out =
yesterday<BR>that=20
        <BR>a very dear<BR>&gt; friend of our in Reston has<BR>&gt; =
contract ALS=20
        and it <BR>has already progessed to the<BR>&gt; point where he =
can=20
        barely<BR>! &gt; brush <BR>his teeth and can't clothe himself. =
He=20
        and<BR>&gt; his wife had joined <BR>a<BR>&gt; local Unitarian =
church a=20
        couple of years ago and<BR>&gt; these <BR>good people =
have<BR>&gt; taken=20
        it upon themselves to provide a world <BR>of<BR>&gt; kindness,=20
        gentleness, love<BR>&gt; and direct physical and <BR>emotional=20
        assistance to<BR>&gt; him and his wife. This<BR>&gt; includes=20
        <BR>visits, shopping trips with and without<BR>&gt; him, food =
deliveries=20
        <BR>and<BR>&gt; compansionship.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To my old timey =
way of=20
        <BR>thinking, this is what<BR>&gt; "churches" used to do: =
love<BR>&gt;=20
        people <BR>and be supportive of those in need. Every<BR>&gt; so =
often it=20
        is good (for<BR><BR>me<BR>&gt; in particular) to be reminded =
that there=20
        are<BR>&gt; those who <BR>actually practice<BR>&gt; what their =
religion=20
        suggests is <BR>"Christian"<BR>&gt; behavior. Of course, =
the<BR>&gt;=20
        Unitarians aren't <BR>exactly boil! er-plate,<BR>&gt; orthodox,=20
        Holey-Rollers. I believe<BR>&gt; <BR>Ben ! Franklin was a =
Unitarian and=20
        possibly G.<BR>&gt; Washington as well. <BR>Not<BR>&gt; exactly =
Bible=20
        thumpers. Many of these<BR>&gt; congregations <BR>accept=20
        neo-pagan<BR>&gt; beliefs without rancor. (Oddly, the only=20
        <BR>other<BR>&gt; church I have found with<BR>&gt; similar =
sentiments=20
        was a <BR>(Scottish) Episcopal<BR>&gt; church in Campbell, =
CA.<BR>&gt;=20
        Campbell being <BR>vurrry Scottish as a person and a<BR>&gt;=20
        clan.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyway. <BR>Have to say sometimes the =
sysems=20
        works<BR>&gt; and works to the benefit <BR>of<BR>&gt; some who =
really,=20
        really deserve it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; wj<BR>&gt; <BR>----- =
Original=20
        Message ----- <BR>&gt; From: "Pepi Plowman" <BR>&gt; To: =
<BR><BR>&gt;=20
        Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:45 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: =
let's=20
        <BR>not do nuance<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Wayne, Judy,=20
        Tele,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm with you all the way on =
the=20
        first part.<BR>&gt; God, <BR>what<BR>&gt; &gt; God? Which God? =
But allow=20
        me to elaborate<BR>&gt; <BR>further,! <BR>&gt; &gt; =
below...<BR>&gt;=20
        &gt; --- telebob wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; Wayne-<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
        &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;! ; I think as you do, and <BR>thank you=20
        for<BR>&gt; reminding us<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; that most priests=20
        <BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; factotems are basically criminals who=20
        spread<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; cultural myths<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
        totally. Myths that <BR>preceded that particular<BR>&gt;=20
        religion<BR>&gt; &gt; which the priests and <BR>factotems =
accepted=20
        as<BR>&gt; truth and<BR>&gt; &gt; preached, or myths that =
<BR>were=20
        flagrantly made<BR>&gt; up to<BR>&gt; &gt; suit a cultural bias =
in=20
        <BR>order to bring more<BR>&gt; ignorant<BR>&gt; &gt; humans to =
the=20
        <BR>"fold".<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; (all the better<BR>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
        if they <BR>believe what they preach, it makes<BR>&gt; it =
easier<BR>&gt;=20
        &gt; &gt; for <BR>them to sleep)in<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; order to =
retain and=20
        extend personal <BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; institutional power. =
This is=20
        not to<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <B! R>say that there are no benefits, =
since=20
        those<BR>&gt; common<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>mythyologies help =
to<BR>&gt;=20
        &gt; &gt; create a 'public order' no matter <BR>what the<BR>&gt; =

        standard.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Are religious<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        <BR>societies 'better' than secular societies?<BR>&gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
        Fuck, <BR>no!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; How do<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
! we=20
        measure? These <BR>are<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; topics worthy of =
millions of=20
        tomes, and<BR>&gt; indeed <BR>you<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; know they =
are out=20
        there<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; discussing <BR>this shit still, like a =
bunch=20
        of<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; sophomores who have <BR>just<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
        dicovered 'philosophy'.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; How <BR>dare =
they=20
        abuse us by discussing them?!<BR>&gt; State and<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
        <BR>religion should not mix, Point!<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;=20
        But my <BR>dad, who was a doctor, was in a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;=20
        'philosophical' mood one <BR>night, a<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; little =
in his=20
        cups,! and he related. "I <BR>watch<BR>&gt; people<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; die=20
        and people born<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>every day as a part of my =
job, and=20
        all I can<BR>&gt; say is,<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; 'Where does the=20
        flame<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; go when it goes out?' Does the <BR>flame =
have=20
        a<BR>&gt; soul?"<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; So, did he ever =
answer=20
        <BR>his question, or did he<BR>&gt; just<BR>&gt; &gt; =
ask?<BR>&gt;=20
        &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; He was not a religious<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; man,=20
        though he tried to <BR>keep up appearances.<BR>&gt; On =
the<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
        &gt; other hand, he <BR>was<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; 'moral' person w! =
ho=20
        enjoyed overpaying his<BR>&gt; <BR>taxes and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
never=20
        breaking a traffic<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>law.<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
        &gt; &gt; So when we are approached by 'holy <BR>men' of<BR>&gt; =

        any<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; stripe, know you are being<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
        approached by the powers of darkness.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
Do=20
        <BR>you really believe there is a! Big Boogyman<BR>&gt; =
out<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
        <BR>there?!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This includes<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;=20
        rabbis, <BR>priests,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; mullahs, and most =
medicine men. I=20
        put my<BR>&gt; <BR>faith in<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; the scientific =
method=20
        and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; its <BR>self correcting process.<BR>&gt; =
&gt;=20
        &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Man, <BR>I'd hate to be on the =
back end=20
        of a "self<BR>&gt; &gt; correcting process" <BR>inflicted on me =
by=20
        a<BR>&gt; source<BR>&gt; &gt; outside myself (like <BR>doctors =
and=20
        lawyers and<BR>&gt; &gt; policemen) when I had resources =
<BR>available=20
        to<BR>&gt; me that<BR>&gt; <BR>=3D=3D=3D message truncated=20
        =
<BR>=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you=20
        <BR>Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on=20
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