[Jacob-list] two horned sheep

[Carl Fosbrink]

Sue,

   You are correct. If you sell them at an auction you don't know where they went. Selling at a meat market would give a better feeling that they didn't go back into the gene pool and also didn't go to the shooters. 

Carl
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Susan J Martin 
  To: Sheep E-mail List ; Mark Essen 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] two horned sheep


  Mark:

  Do you have a web site with pictures of your flock?  I live in PA and have never been to Missouri.....but I always enjoy seeing other flocks albeit via the internet.

  Just a personal opinion -- I refuse to knowingly sell my rams to  game ranch owners, although if I send them to auction that could well be where they end up.  My husband is a dedicated, avid hunter -- and would NEVER consider shooting a domesticated animal and then having the audacity to call it a "hunt."  The pictures posted on the internet and you tube showing "trophy" sheep which in reality are Jacob rams are truly disgusting.

  Sue Martin
  Stonecroft

  _______________________________________________________________________________________

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Mark Essen 
    To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
    Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 11:54 AM
    Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] two horned sheep




    On 9/7/2011 10:03 AM, Carl Fosbrink wrote: 
      Mark,

          Thank you for enlightening us as to why most people don't register in Missouri. It is pretty much what I thought.
    No problem, my thoughts are given out for free.  I just hope you get your money's worth.

        ....... snip


          When buying unregistered stock a person would have to see the seller's flock to know if what they are buying was out of good lines or not I would think.
          Even when buying registered stock this is a good idea because the standard is so wide open that flocks can vary greatly from one flock to another.
    You also have to be willing to cull heavily, even one or two generations down the line.

          I understand the problem with the shooter market paying more for the adult rams. I find it a shame that I am offered much more by shooters for a ram than I can get for it as a registered breeder.
           I also find that other breeds of sheep bring a much higher price for breeders than Jacobs do. I keep them because I love the breed and want to preserve the American Jacob's great qualities and I hope for a bright future for the breed.
    I have often had people ask me how to make money with a farm.  I tell them to sell the farm and invest in something else.   It is fun to watch the eyes and face of a visiter seeing a Jacobs for the first time.  It is extremely rewarding to see a seasoned breeder's jaw drop when they see my sheep.  But, being able to go out in the pasture and see the flock is reward enough for me. 
           I think the JSBA, although it has it's share of problems, has been the most stable and productive of the registries and most of the other registries have faded away.
    I think people figure out fairly quickly which registries are just collecting money and which are actively working for the breed.  I agree with you that JSBA is stable and productive, and I might add, works for the breed and breeders.

           How would I know about all those great Jacobs in Missouri if I wanted to buy some. Would I have to attend all the exotic auctions and sales?
    Grow old raising Jacobs in Missouri.  I am in my mid fifties and have been with Jacobs for over twenty years.  I used to go to all of the sales, swaps, meetings, etc.  I do not go to many events any more, but that is how I met most of the breeders that I know.
    Mark


      Carl
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Mark Essen 
        To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 8:21 PM
        Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] two horned sheep


        A big Thank you goes out to Robin for her report of the stats.  I would never have dreamed that two horned Jacobs were so plentiful.  
        As many of you know, I have been raising Jacobs for more years than most and was a proud member of JSBA for all of my early years.
        In Missouri there are Jacobs flocks all over the place.  I do not know very many that are registered.  But, many of these flocks are of excellent quality.  The problem is finding all of these small flocks.  It is not uncommon for me to run into somebody that sees me wearing a JSBA t-shirt and comes up and talks about their own small flock.  As it turns out, the easiest way to find a Jacobs breeder is go to an exotic sale.  There are at least two in Missouri that happen six times annually that have great Jacobs.  There are at least five other sales or swaps that have Jacobs routinely, although the quality should be questioned.  Then there is the Small Farm Show that has two JSBA members exhibiting every year.  At the sales and swaps, you may or may not get papers, but never pay a premium for registration.  People just do not care.  I have bought some good quality ewes that continually produce good quality lambs that have been registered in a variety of small registries. I think the availability of good quality unregistered stock is one reason that Missourians are not quick to join an association.  I think another reason is that there are a variety of registries that accept Jacobs.  Five years ago I think I counted six different registries that would take my money for a certificate.  My background is JSBA so that is the one that I prefer, but new people have no clue so just do not bother.
        At least, that is my thoughts.
        As a side thought, breeders in Missouri cannot afford a mature four horn quality ram at auction.  The shooting ranches always have more money.  Breeders buy younger stock and hope they turn out well.

        On 9/6/2011 1:27 AM, Carl Fosbrink wrote:
        ..........snip

              Missouri is one state where few people raise registered Jacobs. Mark can probably enlighten us on why this is. I always suspected it was because they have the exotic sales there that other states do not have and this gave them a market that most other states do not have. 


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