[Jacob-list] SUED question

[Carl Fosbrink]

Jennifer,

    In my flock of Jacobs I have had some that had a small notch in the upper eyelid. This does not bother me. They will not necessarily pass this on to their offspring. When they have a tuft of hair that sticks out that is more serious and I do not keep those to sell or breed from. There can be damage to the eye with anything more serious than a hair tuft I am told although I have never had anything worse than a hair tuft and I have mostly a 4 horn flock. 
    You say the lamb with the hair tufts is a ram lamb. I would not recommend using him as a breeder.

Carl 

From: Jennifer 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:19 PM
To: jacob-list at jacobsheep.com 
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] SUED question


I just want to say , That I am so proud to see the Jacob breeders openly commenting on this... When I first got our  Jacob sheep, so many of these unique issues we have with our breed, I felt like, were on the list of things you dont talk about.. and when I would ask a question, it was always privatley answered rather than open to all to see...Its thru this open exchange of information that we all learn.

Perhaps Im too open, and have put out there issues I have had with my flock.. stuff I thought was the end of the earth, but after seeing things become more openly discussed, I felt like "thank goodness Im not the only one"  

As an Extension Agent, the closed door policy of so many types of livestock breeding is frustrating.. Ive had Club Lamb folks refuse to show me what is in their grain mix, as it is their secret recipe, yet they want me to figure out if they are having a nutritional issue in their flock....Sigh.

My best ewe has a mild case of SUED.  Up to this point ( I cant guess what the future brings)  she has not had a lamb with SUED, but I have had an unrealted lamb that did!

I do want to ask about the tufts of hair that supposedly indicate  SUED in lambs.  I have a lamb, that has these big bold hair tufts... He also had a gooey eye... I just made the assumption that it was SUED.... I ended up taking him to the vet as I was curious if there was anything to be done to make him more comfortable...the eye was pretty irritated.....It turned out he had an injury to his 3rd eyelid.. a tear, that looks like maybe when he was just getting around, perhaps he caught it on something.  The vet snipped off a small piece of his  inner eyelid.. and all is well.. no drippy eye, no irritation... no SUED.. yet he has the extra clump of hair! 

Jennifer Tucker
www.MooseMtnRanch.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Neal Grose <nlgrose at yadtel.net>
To: Carl Fosbrink <fourhornfarm at frontier.com>; Jacob-list <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>; Lasell J. Bartlett <lasell at lasell.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 2:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] SUED question


I'll second (third?) Carl here. There is SOME independence between 
polycerate and SUED, but not much. I have even had a crossbred whether with 
scurs and SUED.

Here, we very seldom see SUED in ewes, and generally not in rams where there 
is not a dramatic separation between the side horns. This is a trait to 
control, not one that we should attempt to eliminate. What we want is 
MEDIUM.

Neal Grose
PS: I saw a picture of a yak on TV the other day and realized it looked as 
though it had 4 horns. Unfortunately, the remote doesn't have a "wt...heck" 
feature.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Carl Fosbrink
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:07 AM
To: Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com ; Lasell J. Bartlett
Subject: Re: [Jacob-list] SUED question

Lasell,

     I don't understand what you mean by a 4 horned "carrier". All Jacobs
are carriers.  SUED is part of the polycerate genes. It can occur in any  4
horn mating and is not a problem in a mild case. The genes that cause the
horns to split can run down to the eye socket and that can cause a split in
the eye lid as I understand it. I have looked at skulls from my own dead
Jacobs and have observed a split in the eye socket on the skull of a 5
horned ewe that did not show up as a split in the eye lid of that ewe.
      Some 2 horns are actually completely fused 4 horns and some are actual
2 horns. SUED could show up in 4 horned offspring of 2 horned Jacobs because
it is part of what causes the horn buds to split.
      I  would never cull a good Jacob with a slight notch in the upper
eyelid because SUED is part of the Jacob breed. If we were to completely
breed it out we would end up with a 2 horned breed of sheep and although we
have had 2 horns in our Jacobs ever since the introduction of the English
imports Jacobs are known for their multipule horns and I love a beautiful 4
horned Jacob.

Carl Fosbrink

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lasell J. Bartlett" <lasell at lasell.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 7:32 AM
To: <Jacob-list at jacobsheep.com>
Subject: [Jacob-list] SUED question


> From what I understand, SUED shows up when a 4 horn carrier breeds  with a 

> 4 horn carrier, and chance has it show it. (Sorry for rough  genetic 

> description?)

> Can a 2 horn Jacob carry the gene and pass it along, so that even if  it 

> would never show up in a 2 horn sheep, it could show up in a later 

> generation if the 2 horn or its offspring, had 4 horn offspring (that  was 

> bred to carrier 4 horn)?

>

> Or does the gene NOT get passed along through the 2 horn sheep?

>

> Or something else?

>

> Under what circumstances do any of you breeders cull or not cull  lambs 

> with (milder degrees of) SUED?

>

> Lasell J Bartlett

> lasell at lasell.org

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

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