[Retros] Natch 3.0 beta is out

Fri Jul 29 14:30:07 EDT 2016

That is my initial position:

4k2r/pp2p1p1/P7/4Np2/1B4Q1/P2NP1n1/1PbP3q/K2R3R

The idea is to prove that the Black King has moved and cannot castle
anymore.
Can Natch help in any means?

Thanks,

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Pascal Wassong <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
wrote:

> Hi Paulo,
>
> Natch is absolutely not done to solve this kind of problems.  It will
> take way too much time, and spit out way too much solutions.
>
> Checking if your initial position is legal is easy for anybody used to
> solve retrograde problems.  Finding the shortest proof game to your
> position is probably not interesting at all.  About 80 or 100 years ago,
> this was sometimes done to show that a position is legal.  Nowadays,
> nobody does it anymore.
>
> If you intend to publish your problem, the section editor where you will
> send it will be able to tell you if your position is legal or not.
>
> Pascal
>
>
> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
>
>   Paulo> Its for a problem I invented. Its a "mate in 2" problem that
>   Paulo> requires retro analysis, and I want to check if the starting
>   Paulo> position is really reachable in a normal valid game. So I don't
>   Paulo> really know how many moves it would require to get there. I
>   Paulo> want to find the minimum number of moves possible.
>
>   Paulo> Thanks, Paulo
>
>
>   Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Pascal Wassong
>   Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
>   Paulo> wrote:
>
>   >> Hello,
>   >>
>   >> thank you for using iNatch and Natch !
>   >>
>   >> For iNatch, the version 0.7 has been created for 32 bits machines,
>   >> this is a bit outdated.  I suggest using the previous version
>   >> 0.6.2, which is a full java version, independant from 32 bits or 64
>   >> bits.  Many users (me included) prefer the 0.6.2 version.
>   >>
>   >> For Natch, you must provide the number of moves.  It is strange to
>   >> want to try Natch on a position without knowing the minimum number
>   >> of moves needed to reach it.  You could test the position while
>   >> increasing the number of moves at each try.
>   >>
>   >> Best wishes, Pascal
>   >>
>   >>
>   >>
>   >> >>>>> "Paulo" == Paulo Peccin <ppeccin at gmail.com> writes:
>   >>
>   Paulo> Tried to run iNatch, but it does not start in my machine. Java8
>   Paulo> installed.  The logs say:
>   >>
>   Paulo> !ENTRY org.eclipse.osgi 4 0 2016-07-29 14:45:04.760 !MESSAGE
>   Paulo> Application error !STACK 1 java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no
>   Paulo> swt-win32-3320 or swt-win32 in swt.library.path,
>   Paulo> java.libary.path or the jar file
>   >>
>   Paulo> Also, can I use Natch to find a solution to a position, but I
>   Paulo> don't know how many moves it would take to get to that
>   Paulo> position?
>   >>
>   Paulo> Thanks, Paulo
>   >>
>   Paulo> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Pascal Wassong
>   Paulo> <pascal.wassong at free.fr>
>   Paulo> wrote:
>   >>
>   >> >> Hello all,
>   >> >>
>   >> >> 19 years after the first version, 7 years after the latest
>   >> version, >> a new version of Natch is out.  It is version 3.0 beta.
>   >> You can >> download it from http://Natch.free.fr .
>   >> >>
>   >> >> Previous version already computed the order of some moves.  This
>   >> >> was used to eliminate position having cycles in it.  For example
>   >> >> Pa2-a8=N-b6*Pa7 and Pa7xb6.  These move orders found for a
>   >> position >> are now used when searching for the moves.  For
>   >> example, if black >> must play Rh8-e8-e3-c3 and white Pe2-e4, the
>   >> wPe2 won't be allowed >> to move before the black rook arrived at
>   >> c3.  This improvement >> increase the speed of resolution of many
>   >> problems, and makes the >> --watch (-k for short) preaty useless.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> Many more move orders are also found.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> A bug has been corrected, where some solutions where not found.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> A bug has been corrected on Mac, which made the program crash
>   >> when >> the hash-tables where full.  I was surprised to learn about
>   >> this >> problem so late.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> There are also minor changes in the output file and when using
>   >> the >> visual option.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> More details about this new version are available in the NEWS
>   >> file >> available when you download the beta version.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> There were many bugs in the numerous alpha version while
>   >> developing >> this 3.0 version, which have been found by the
>   >> testers, mainly >> Michel Caillaud and Thierry Le Gleuher.  Thanks
>   >> to them and to the >> other testers.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> There may still be bugs in this version.  If you find one, don't
>   >> >> hesitate to send it to me.  The informations needed are: - the
>   >> >> proof game, being as short as possible, that reproduces the bug;
>   >> - >> the expected solution; - the number of the position where the
>   >> bug >> occurs, if needed; - a clear description of what is going
>   >> wrong.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> The precompiled version for windows is a 64 bits version.  I
>   >> could >> also prepare a 32 bits windows version, if enough people
>   >> are >> interested.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> Happy composing, Pascal >>
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